Scuttlebutt Website SCUTTLEBUTT
SAILING NEWS
ForumIndex CLASSIFIED ADS Search Posts SEARCH
POSTS
Who's Online WHO'S
ONLINE
Log in LOG IN         

Forum Index: .: Dock Talk:
Team Racing Scheduling & Results
Team McLube

 



Atilla The Hun
***

Nov 1, 2005, 2:27 AM

Post #1 of 7 (25618 views)
Shortcut
Team Racing Scheduling & Results Log-In to Post/Reply

Hi,
I recently had the pleasure of being involved in a team racing event. However I had the misfortune to be involved with the scheduling and results. We just used excell, but it was real basic. Has anyone come up with software program to cope with TR events. I've looked at the rotation generator but this is quite basic.
Regards,
Atilla The Hun


Chris Woods
***

Nov 1, 2005, 5:28 AM

Post #2 of 7 (25603 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Atilla The Hun] Team Racing Scheduling & Results [In reply to] Log-In to Post/Reply

Not sure what you mean...scoring is pretty easy and the US Team Racing Association site, has some downloadable templates for many size fleets. Check them out or be more precise on what you need and we'll see if we can find it for you.


Chris
NYYC Team Racing




Atilla The Hun
***

Nov 1, 2005, 10:18 AM

Post #3 of 7 (25570 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Chris Woods] Team Racing Scheduling & Results [In reply to] Log-In to Post/Reply

Sorry if i was not clear. I'll try to make myself more clear.
At this particular event we had 4 flights of boats. The break down of the fleets was as follows goldA, goldB, Silver and Bronze. This was done as there was a huge gap in standard between some teams. It was felt that it would be unnessicary for every team to race each other. Each team in a flight raced each other once. so at the end of this series 162 races had been sailed whereas as if the system of everyone races everyone was used then there would have had to be 600 races. Once the league stage was over it went to knock outs to produce a final winner. The wins & points acquired that teams acquired from the league stage were used to seed the teams in the quater finals (best vrs worst etc). So this required the results office to know not only the amount of wins a team had, the amount of points they acquired. But when two or more teams were tied on wins we also needed to know the race scores when they met to break the tie.
Have we made this more difficult than nessicary... probably!! But what would you think is the best system that would accommodate so many teams (yet not large enough for a swiss legue senerio of 32 teams) and allow a final winner to be produced over a weekend.
Regards,
Atilla The Hun


Chris Woods
***

Nov 1, 2005, 10:52 AM

Post #4 of 7 (25561 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Atilla The Hun] Team Racing Scheduling & Results [In reply to] Log-In to Post/Reply

As far as a "regatta system" goes, that sounds like a sound plan and I can't imagine that you could do it more effectively.

The one obvious issue, if I read this correctly, is that you already pre-qualified/seeded teams, so comparing scores and points between GoldA and Bronze would be innacurate, given that the winner of GoldA could have ended up with a worse score than the winner of Bronze, yet far outmatch them head-to-head as the scores came from different events/levels of competition.

Certainly having a good event with a uneven levels of teams presents challenges that in some cases cannot be overcome. I guess an alternative would be mixed initial flights that seeded the teams by results so that the finals ended seeding themselves. But that would have made a lot less close TR throughout the weekend.


Chris
NYYC Team Racing


Atilla The Hun
***

Nov 1, 2005, 11:55 AM

Post #5 of 7 (25515 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Chris Woods] Team Racing Scheduling & Results [In reply to] Log-In to Post/Reply

Thanks,
You are right about the seeding... what i didnt mention is that we took the top four teams from the goldA and goldB and put them into the GOLDa quater knock outs. We did a simular thing for the SILVER fleet using the bottom two from goldA and goldB and the top 6 from the silver and so on and so forth for the BRONZE. We did give the one particular team in the brooze a get out of jail card as they felt hard done by that they didnt have the chance to go on and win the regatta however they didnt preform adequately as expected. (I should mention that teams were put into particular fleets based upon their past performances)
So to get back to my original question... i suppose you havnt come accross a system to deal with this senario. It was quite laborious following the paper trail to calculate the results and it took up an unreasonable amount of time for both sailors and organisers.
Regards,
Atilla the Hun


kdw
*

Nov 1, 2005, 4:00 PM

Post #6 of 7 (25487 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Atilla The Hun] Team Racing Scheduling & Results [In reply to] Log-In to Post/Reply

Hi,
We run an event at MIT every year called the Charles River Team Race. 24 teams, 36 boats. The format
we use starts with an initial round, with the teams randomly seeded, and then reseeds the teams after
each set. The final winner for the regatta is decided by which team accumulates the most "regatta points",
which are calcualted as described below. Beating a higher ranked team is worth more than beating a
low team.

The format is as follows:

Teams are randomly put into 4 groups of 6 teams. (A, B, C, D).
Each group sails a round robin within their group. (5 races/teaam)
They then rotate to the dock and groups C and D do the same.

At the end of this, each team in the regatta will have sailed 5 races. A team
receives 2 "regatta points" for each win in this round. (More on the points later)

The teams are then seeded based on their records, and split again into 4 groups of 6 teams. Group
A is teams seeded 1-6, B is 7-12, C is 13-18, D is 19-24. Ties are only broken if it is necessary
to determine which group a team will be in, and the tie breaker is based on
total "race points" accumulated by each team in the 5 races sailed to that point. (ie if team a beats
team b with a 1-2-3 vs 4-5-6, team a would get 6 race points, team b would get 15 race points)
If a tie remains after this, the tie is broken by a game of chance (coin flip, name from a hat, whatever)

Groups A and B now go back out and sail another round robin within their group. This will be another
5 races per team. A win in group A is now worth 4 points, a win in group B is worth 3 points.

A and B then switch out and groups C and D also sail a round robin against their group. A win in Group
C is worth 2 points, a win in group D is worth 1 point.

At this point, each team will have sailed 10 races, and will also have a "regatta points" total, which is the
total of the number of wins in round 1 times 2 + the number of wins in round 2 times the group weight (4 for A, 3 for B, etc).

The teams are now reseeded, based on their overall record for the event. (10 races so far). Ties are now broken
by the number of "regatta points", and then by the number of "race points" accumulated in each race the teams have
done. It is important to reseed based on record, not regatta points, as this would allow a team which incorrectly found themselves
in Group D (ie. they are a good team who fell on hard times) to go 5-0 and quickly move up to better competition. At 1 point
per win, if you reseeded on regatta points, a team in group D going 5-0 would still have a hard time moving up a group.

Once again, group A is teams 1-6, B is 7-12, C is 13-18, D is 19-24. The points awarded per win remains the same in
each group for the rest of the event (4 points for a win in group A, 3 for group B, 2 for group C, 1 for group D) Each
group again sails a round robin amongst their group.

This format continues until you run out of time, with the teams being reseeded after every set of round robins.

If you wish, you can end with a finals amongst the top group, with wins being worth more than 4 points. (we have used
5 points for this round, but it depends how much weight you want to put on the finals)

The end result is that teams end up sailing races against other teams of similar abilities. The top teams are the ones
who can maintain an above .500 record against the other .500 teams and clean up on the lower ranked teams should
they move out of the top group.

We do the scoring using Excel. The rotation is easy, as it is just a 6 team round robin which we take from the USTRA website.


Atilla The Hun
***

Nov 2, 2005, 3:40 PM

Post #7 of 7 (25442 views)
Shortcut
Re: [kdw] Team Racing Scheduling & Results [In reply to] Log-In to Post/Reply

Thanks KDW that sounds like a pretty good way of going about it
rgds,
Atilla The Hun


Viewing the Forums: No members and guests
 


Search for (options) Contact Forum Forum FAQS Markup Tags Forum Rules