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Forum Index: .: Dock Talk: Need recomendations for Jr boats

Rob ** Jan 8, 2006, 4:42 PM Post #1 of 21 (68969 views) Shortcut Need recomendations for Jr boats Log-In to Post/Reply Our Yacht Club is in the process of expanding it's fleet of club boats for use in training junior sailors. We have a fleet of Optis, but have nothing for the larger kids or for two person sailing. We've discussed the club 420 and the JY15. Can anyone recommend other good double-handed dinghys for club use? This club is on an inland lake, Southeastern US. Thanks

Guest Deleted Jan 8, 2006, 5:00 PM Post #2 of 21 (68967 views) Shortcut Re: [Rob] Need some recomendations [In reply to] Log-In to Post/Reply Try http://www.sailextreme.com/dingfrme.htm.

Guest Deleted Jan 8, 2006, 6:39 PM Post #3 of 21 (68955 views) Shortcut Re: [Rob] Need some recomendations [In reply to] Log-In to Post/Reply Seems like you have two choices for doublehanded: go with what is being sailed in your area, or go with what what is being used at the US Youth Champs, etc. Maybe its the same. The idea is to provide the kids with a good, next step, one which they can carry on with. Prob with club boats is that they get a lot of wear and tear during program use, but since there aren't usually as many kids that are willing to travel to events, its nice to hold back a couple for regattas. If there are clubs nearby, look to what they are doing, or motivate them to go a better direction. But don't be too creative. Lots of clubs have already done what you are considering, and while the kids might want something sexy and fast, the idea is for them to be sailing against lots of other kids, and continuing to learn the basics.

Snorky * Jan 9, 2006, 2:31 AM Post #4 of 21 (68927 views) Shortcut Re: [Rob] Need some recomendations [In reply to] Log-In to Post/Reply Hi Rob We had the same issue with the Junior's and went to Puffin Pacers.. excellent for beginners, good for Team racing too, we thought the next step on would be to a 420 or Cherubs, but like the Pacers need low maintenance.. and able to take a few knocks Good luck

Rob ** Jan 9, 2006, 5:07 AM Post #5 of 21 (68916 views) Shortcut Re: [Snorky] Need some recomendations [In reply to] Log-In to Post/Reply Thanks to all for the replies. A nearby club uses the JY15, which looks to be a simple, straightforward little boat. I'll look into the Puffin Pacer as well. Thanks

Hans Meyer * Jan 9, 2006, 9:08 AM Post #6 of 21 (68893 views) Shortcut Re: [Rob] Need some recomendations [In reply to] Log-In to Post/Reply Rob, Check out the new Melges 17 (Melges.com or call Andy Burdick - 262-275-1110). With an optimum crew weight of three hundred pounds it works for high school kids as well as adults learning to sail. As a trainer it can be rigged with a self launching whisker pole until the student gets his/her 'spinnaker' certification. When the boats aren't being used for training, they can be chartered to club members (who are qualified) to sail in weekend or weekday series or in a particular regatta. The revenue generated can offset the purchase price and/or pay for maintenance. Hans Meyer

Montrose *** Jan 10, 2006, 7:41 PM Post #7 of 21 (68839 views) Shortcut Re: [Rob] Need some recomendations [In reply to] Log-In to Post/Reply Consider the goals of the program. So Cal use FJ's, as that is the boat used for HS Sailing, and Club 420's as that is the boat most used for US National events, like the Orange Bowl and the Youths. Plus, the C-420 NA's is now a huge event on the junior circuit. International events often use the I-420, which is a jump from the C-420, but it would be a much bigger jump from any other boat. Do not get caught up in looking for the "best boat." Go with the flow so your kids can reach out beyond their own water hole. ------------------------------------------------------------ Paul Elvestrom, "If, in the course of victory you have not won the respect of your competitors, you have won nothing at all."

Grumpy * Jan 10, 2006, 8:16 PM Post #8 of 21 (68831 views) Shortcut Re: [Rob] Need some recomendations [In reply to] Log-In to Post/Reply Been there done that, hence the name Grumpy. the best advice i can give is think fun, and fun to a kid means fast with instant gratification. Go from Optis, to Pico's to Bytes then lasers or, Optis to Laser 2's and then 29ers. we had the same issue. 15 year olds want jet skis, not rowing boats.

Montrose *** Jan 10, 2006, 8:23 PM Post #9 of 21 (68826 views) Shortcut Re: [Grumpy] Need some recomendations [In reply to] Log-In to Post/Reply   ------------------------------------------------------------ Paul Elvestrom, "If, in the course of victory you have not won the respect of your competitors, you have won nothing at all."

skiffy * Jan 10, 2006, 10:19 PM Post #10 of 21 (68819 views) Shortcut Re: [Rob] Need some recomendations [In reply to] Log-In to Post/Reply Lot's of good advice, but if you want to look beyond the same-old, same-old, look into the NS-14, a very popular Australian boat. There are about 3,000 in Australia, and about 15 in the US. So, you can get in on the ground floor in the US :-). The boat is light, more fun to sail than the heavier boats mentioned which is very important to the kids, very well balanced, and versatile. In Santa Barbara, the boats always attract a crowd among the kids. http://ns14.sailoz.net/ The boats in Australia are sailed single handed with main alone, double handed with main/jib, there is a version, the MG, with spinnaker (sym or asym) and single trap. They are raced by 2 kids, two adults, parent/kid, couples. Tweaky with lots of adjustments, or keep it simple. The Aussie boats are very nicely finished.

foxy ** Jan 11, 2006, 5:41 AM Post #11 of 21 (68790 views) Shortcut Re: [Rob] Need some recomendations [In reply to] Log-In to Post/Reply Why not consider the Snipe. The competition in the class is excellent and the class is well organized and well run. The Snipe class sponsors junior regattas and junior divisions at the Nationals and other big regattas. The boats last a long time and there would be many affordable used boats within a reasonable distance from your club. Its also a boat that family members can and often do sail together. District 4 (southeast) is the largest and most active in the US so there would be plenty of events near you to attend. http://www.snipeus.org/

Rob ** Jan 11, 2006, 5:53 AM Post #12 of 21 (68784 views) Shortcut Re: [foxy] Need some recomendations [In reply to] Log-In to Post/Reply Thanks to all for the advice! Foxy, I'm a member of a club that at one time had the largest snipe fleet in the country, Privateer. We have at least 20 boats still "floating" around in one state of disrepair or another. I was talking to some folks at the club over the weekend, and they thought that many of these boats could be refurbished and re-rigged a bit for junior use. I'm pursuing that avenue now. I'm going to set up something so that these old snipe sailors can donate their boats for a tax write off, and then watch their boats help our junior fleet get going. Thanks for the help guys. Rob

foxy ** Jan 11, 2006, 6:09 AM Post #13 of 21 (68779 views) Shortcut Re: [Rob] Need some recomendations [In reply to] Log-In to Post/Reply Rob, We have a club owned Snipe at Melbourne YC that is used in our training program. Last year it needed a lot of stuff to get it back into shape after the storms. I put out an E-mail to the fleet captains of the 4th district and in 2 hours had everything we needed to get the boat sailing again, a rudder, sails, whisker pole and some hardware items. My guess is that you will have no problem in getting lots of help with your program from the class members.

Rob ** Jan 11, 2006, 6:50 AM Post #14 of 21 (68762 views) Shortcut Re: [foxy] Need some recomendations [In reply to] Log-In to Post/Reply Great! I hope I have the same success. I'm trying to locate at least five boats to start with, and I'm pretty sure there are enough parts, sails, etc around to get us started.

foxy ** Jan 11, 2006, 7:14 AM Post #15 of 21 (68753 views) Shortcut Re: [Rob] Need some recomendations [In reply to] Log-In to Post/Reply There were a couple of fleets that were looking to donate extra boats to other clubs or fleets. I'd suggest that you contact Don Hackbarth, the national secretary as I think he has information on these or would at least know who to contact. mailto:dhackbar@bellsouth.net

mmarion * Jan 11, 2006, 3:27 PM Post #16 of 21 (68698 views) Shortcut Re: [Rob] Need some recomendations [In reply to] Log-In to Post/Reply Rob, there may be a simple answer to your question: the PiXel. After a comprehensive two year boat search, the Junior Sailing Association of Long Island Sound and its member yacht clubs overwhelmingly selected the Bruce Kirby designed PiXel as the double handed successor to the Blue Jay class. The junior sailing program that I co-chair included three PiXels last summer on a test basis. The PiXels proved to be quick--faster than club 420s at times--as well as stable, well built, and fun to sail in light and heavy air. Needless to say, our fleet of PiXels is expected to grow significantly next summer. From our standpoint, the boat has fulfilled its design brief, and should help us to keep kids in the program who are graduating from OPTIs or are too large to sail OPTIs in the first place. You should take a close look at the boat.

Pworks * Jan 13, 2006, 8:07 AM Post #17 of 21 (68639 views) Shortcut Re: [Rob] Need recomendations for Jr boats [In reply to] Log-In to Post/Reply Would all depend on the overall goal for your program, racing instruction/pleasure sailing/children only/adults as well? etc., etc. Have a look at a new one, fits between the Opti and 420, www.transit380.com or a good one for children as well as adult pleasure sailing is the Precision 15 and Precision 185, both are Jim Taylor designs as is the Transit_380. More info at www.precisionboatworks.com

melges419 *** Jan 13, 2006, 8:16 AM Post #18 of 21 (68637 views) Shortcut Re: [Rob] Need recomendations for Jr boats [In reply to] Log-In to Post/Reply I help with our local program and it seems you are almost relegated to do 420 and Optis if you want some of your kids to move on and race because there will be fleets of them to race against. The JY 15 is probably a more stable boat and will break much less(especially the hull) but only a few areas still use them. The high school teams that race and college primarily use 420 in the South east. Only one or 2 teams use anything else. One team uses JYs and another uses FJs( I think) So, Opti's and 420s if you want to promote them staying in the sport and also these boats are easier to find used or repair parts because they are here for good. Sail Often and have fun

Rob ** Jan 13, 2006, 4:36 PM Post #19 of 21 (68623 views) Shortcut Re: [melges419] Need recomendations for Jr boats [In reply to] Log-In to Post/Reply Again, thanks all for the input on this well worn subject. It's obvious that a lot of folks have spent a lot of time doing the same research that I'm doing now. The 420 is still looking like a good candidate, simply because of the used boat market. If I'm lucky, I'll have $7000-$10,000 to play with for this initial foray, and for a five boat fleet, there are not a lot of choices for that money. I'm also getting good response from the Snipe folks, but the boat is certainly not a "step-up" boat from the Opti. I'm starting to consider taking some old snipes and converting them to "Club" Snipes, i.e. no pole launcher, simplify the traveler and halyard system, and no mast ram. The boat is heavy for a 15 footer, but I can find them cheap around here.

timy2k2 * Jan 14, 2006, 8:15 AM Post #20 of 21 (68608 views) Shortcut Re: [Rob] Need recomendations for Jr boats [In reply to] Log-In to Post/Reply I would like to reccomend to you the Chrysler Buccaneer 18, currently manufactured by Nickels boat works. there are many used boats on the market rigged for spinnaker and racing from $1000 - $2000. http://www.buccaneer18.org/. there is a for sale section. I have enjoyed teaching my son's on this boat, it is fast but easy to sail. The Class is growing and racing takes place in all corners of the USA.

Badger ** Jan 15, 2006, 8:12 PM Post #21 of 21 (68588 views) Shortcut Re: [Rob] Need recomendations for Jr boats [In reply to] Log-In to Post/Reply Another plug for the Flying Junior, the good ol' FJ. $1K less per boat than a 420, better suited to smaller inland lakes, easy for 2 juniors to handle but adults can swipe 'em and enjoy 'em for a special event, hold value well, good used market for buying and selling, college and HS sailing both use 'em. The idea with Snipes and scrounging boats and parts is a good one, though. Those kind of programs often lead to revitalization of a Class. Good luck. The real key is to get similar boats, maintain them as similar as possible, have the kids rotate so things stay "fair" (though assigning for a "season" so they maintain them, clean them, etc., rather than beat them has it's merits, a "temporary ownership mentality").

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