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Forum Index: DISCUSSION: Dock Talk:
Windward Gates
Team McLube

 

 


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Aug 3, 2008, 4:10 PM

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SCUTTLEBUTT 2650 - Thursday, July 31, 2008

READY FOR THE WEATHER GATE?
by Jeff Zarwell, National Race Officer
Going into my first windward-gate regatta as a race officer, I anticipated increased mark-set responsibilities and a need for experienced hands to pull off the initial set and then to maintain a four-buoy weather-mark configuration. I was right. However, the benefits of the windward gate were greater than I expected.

The two-day regatta was sailed in J/105s out of The San Francisco Yacht Club in Belvedere, California. Courses were laid in what we call the Olympic Circle, a relatively shallow, relatively tide-protected area on the Berkeley side of San Francisco Bay, often used for higher-level competition.

We ran the first two races with a single weather mark and offset, adding the weather gate for the final race of the day after an initially backing breeze stabilized. In the first rounding of the windward gate, it was clear that that most of the 28 competitors had not calculated (or were not able to calculate) risk/benefit between left and right marks. With the left side of the course favored for the downwind leg, only 9 (including the ever-competitive Chris Perkins) took the starboard mark. On the second rounding, however, that number increased to 16. -- SAIL, read on: http://preview.sailmag.com/racecourse/ready_for_the_weather_gate/index.aspx





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Aug 3, 2008, 4:12 PM

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SCUTTLEBUTT 2651 - Friday, August 1, 2008

* From Scott Sellers: As a participant in the regatta with weather gates
referenced by Jeff Zarwell, I have a different opinion on their use. They are
a terrible idea for two reasons:

1) They are unsafe and more likely to lead to a collision. Most of the fleet
approaches on starboard layline and any boat rounding the starboard gate is
playing dodge 'em on port tack first going upwind getting to the starboard
gate and then going downwind with a line of upwind starboard tackers coming
at them.
2) They are unfair and more likely to have the race determined by race
committee error. With two gate marks and two offsets, even the best race
committee will be challenged to make them equal length and angle to the
wind.

The biggest beneficiary of weather gates that I saw was the boatyard that
repaired the boats from the collisions coming out of the starboard gate.


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Aug 3, 2008, 4:14 PM

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SCUTTLEBUTT 2652 - Monday, August 4, 2008

* From Dave Perry: The concept behind the windward gate is a good one. Get more boats onto the run more quickly, keeping the fleet more compressed which makes for more fun and challenging racing. This is not a new idea. The legendary Paul Elvstrom advocated the use of a windward gate and a leeward gate in his book, Expert Dinghy and Keelboat Racing, published in 1967! It took us until the mid-80’s to sincerely try and accept the leeward gate; and at first there were a lot of complaints: it was confusing to the sailors, it required more mark setting, it was not fair if it wasn’t square. But now most one-design sailors would be surprised to sail a course without a leeward gate.

With a single windward mark, if you are not in the lead group, you are relegated to overstanding more and more on starboard or take the high risk of approaching the starboard-tack parade on port (often leading to disastrous results), as the leaders extend their lead. And because of the wall of boats on the offset leg, rarely does it pay to gybe at the offset mark, making the boats sail higher on starboard on the run to defend their wind, again as the leaders further extend away.

One-design sailing seems to be growing again, especially in the area of one-design keelboats, and many innovations have accompanied, or helped spawn, this growth. Windward/leeward race tracks (eliminating the boring follow-the-leader, rich-get-richer reaching legs), shorter races and more of them a day, leeward gates, three-boat starting lines, and more. The windward gate is worth more experimentation.

Yes there will be growing pains. Port tackers will need to be careful, as they always need to be; and race management teams will need to set more marks (it is critical to use offset marks for each windward mark in larger fleets), and will have to learn the correct separation and angle of the gate (about 10 lengths apart and square to the wind). But sailed carefully, that port tacker should be able to get onto the run sooner by having a choice of marks to round. And if the gate isn’t square to the wind, that just becomes a strategic factor, just as it is at the starting line and leeward gate (which are often not square either); and a boat may still come out ahead going to the "unfavored" mark if it is less crowded or she can get there sooner. And if the race management team is dedicated to running the best races possible for the sailors, then they should be willing to try new courses, if they are reasonably able to do so.


* From John A. Glynn: With regards to the thread on weather gates, we have used them at the Bitter End Yacht Club Pro Am and Drakes Challenge Regattas (small fleets, world-class skippers) very successfully for the last 10+ years, first with Freedom 30s, and now with IC 24s. We find that it keeps the boats evenly spread out across the course, while at the same time creating interesting tactical situations, rather than simple parades. For those who want “tactically engaging and mentally challenging” racing, windward gates make all the sense in the world. In the past, it took huge leaps of faith to go from simple triangles to more interesting windward-leewards, and then from single mark set ups to gates at the leeward end and offsets at the top. Properly executed, windward gates are a logical next step for certain types of fleets and skill sets. Sailing always needs to be looking for innovation to keep things fresh.

- Craig Leweck, Scuttlebutt


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Aug 3, 2008, 4:20 PM

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Flashback to SCUTTLEBUTT 2545 – March 4, 2008

INNOVATIONS AT ETCHELLS MIDWINTERS
At the Etchells Midwinters in Miami last weekend, PRO Dave Brennan decided
to try something new, and in the process may have changed sailboat racing as
we know it.

The Etchells class has been around since the early 70’s, and at age 35+, it
is arguably the hottest one-design keelboat in the world. Many of the
biggest names in the sport sail them now along with a strong and committed
group of class stalwarts who’ve been sailing them for years. The Jaguar Cup,
an annual series consisting of four events sailed in Miami and capped off by
the Midwinter Championship, now draws 90 boats from all over the world. And
this isn’t just any 90 boats – it’s a deep 90 – and while the racing is
off-the-charts good, the unfortunate by-product is that even after a 2.2
mile first beat, everyone gets to the windward mark at the same time. I mean
EVERYONE.

The Etchells is a very pretty boat, and it’s a joy to sail. There are very
few designs that are quite as pointy, however, or as unresponsive when the
helm is hard over, which makes these “en masse” mark roundings particularly
scary. So the Biscayne Bay race management team decided to try something
new: two windward marks. And why not? Given the fact that the leeward gate
has become de rigeur at pretty much every event that I’ve sailed in over the
past 10 years, I’m surprised it’s taken this long for someone to take a shot
at the windward gate. Paul Elvstrom incorporated it into his innovative
“triple racing” format, but to my knowledge, it hasn’t been tried in a
high-profile fleet race yet. -- Bill Lynn, Spindrift blog, read on:
http://atlantisweathergear.blogspot.com/2008/03/white-rats.html





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Aug 3, 2008, 4:23 PM

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SCUTTLEBUTT 2547 – March 6, 2008

* From Chris Ericksen: With all due respect to young Bill Lynn, the windward
gate like that used at the Etchells Midwinter West (see 'Butt 2545) will
probably not go down in history with Dacron, the trapeze and the winged keel
as something that "changed sailboat racing as we know it." Besides, as PRO
Dave Brennan probably knows, it was not even that revolutionary an idea:
back in the Nineties some Olympic classes experimented with windward gates
and were not happy with the results.

What ensued in at least one case was pretty bad: a 470 bore away around a
windward-gate mark and knocked the crew of boat on the adjacent layline
right off the wire. In 1993, Alamitos Bay Yacht Club in Long Beach,
California, was asked to use not only a leeward gate but both a windward
gate and a mid-course gate for that year's Tornado Worlds; the specter of
negotiating a windward gate with boats flying in from two directions at Mach
Nine--to say nothing of boats coming through the mid-course gate from four
directions at Mach Nine--scared the class out of its collective wits and the
idea was dropped thereafter.

Mister Lynn finishes his blog entry, "Ten years from now, we may not be able
to remember what it was like to sail in races with only one windward mark."
I sincerely hope that does not come to pass, and I am confident that it will
not. Great idea on paper--really scary on the water.

* From Charlie Ogletree: In response to Bill Lynn's article "Innovation at
Etchells Midwinter" in Scuttlebutt #2545; The Tornado Class used a windward
gate, middle gate and a leeward gate at the 1993 World Championships in Long
Beach, CA. I can attest that crossing situations in gates, in catamarans at
high speeds was very hairy. It is great to see mono-hulls using catamaran
innovations again; square top mains and now windward gates.




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Aug 4, 2008, 1:28 PM

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From Dave Brennan, Etchell Jaguar Series PRO:

I thought it would be a good time to weigh-in on the windward gate and the Etchell Midwinters.

With 80 Boats registered for the 2008 Jaguar Etchell Series, and the Etchell Midwinters we knew we would have numerous challenges to deal with. In the first couple of regattas in the series, it was clear with the boats setting up more than .5 mile from the windward mark (same length as the starting line) on the starboard lay line and so many boats trying to jam in where there wasn’t any room at the mark, with numerous collisions we needed to do something. I thought it would be a good time to try the windward gate again; it wasn’t a new idea.

I started by selling the idea to the Etchell Class & Etchell fleet 20 representatives with no problem. I then made a series of phone calls to other race officers friends that I know that have experience with big one-design fleets, and they all thought it was a good idea and each had many good suggestions on course management. I next checked in with my Chief Judge for the series and laid out my plan, very excited about trying something new and progressive, and fine-tuned the Si’s for the change. Next, I started calling some of sailors in the series that I knew well, shared my plan, and asked their thoughts, each had suggestions and ideas on how to implement the windward gate.

At the skippers meeting I shared with the fleet what we were about to try. I wanted to try the windward gate without offsets to start with, I promised to bring them out if there was too much confusion. There were quite a few, very vocal dissenters who were predicting doom and gloom with the windward gate. I promised if the windward gate was a real catastrophe, I would return to the single windward mark with an offset. All of the Etchell’s in the series carry a VHF radio for communication purposes and this would help facilitate any changes.

The first race with the windward gate was a success, 60% of the boats used the port gate mark, and 40 % used the starboard gate mark. We lost the long starboard tack stack-up and the huge number of boats trying to jam in at the single weather mark. However, there was enough confusion that I brought out the offset marks for the balance of races.

Back at the club after the first days racing, there was cautious optimism among the fleet about the windward gate with not too many negative comments. Day two of the series went very smooth and very few issues with the windward gate. I went out of my way to chat with as many sailors as I could, tracking down the vocal dissenters from the skippers meeting and get their thoughts on the windward gate. Universally the conversation ashore was about tactics and opportunities created by the windward gate, not about crashes and confusion. For the regatta, the split at the top of the course was roughly 50 / 50.

For the 80-boat fleet we set the windward gate at 12 boat lengths, and 8 boat lengths for the offsets. We had to change the width of the leeward gate from 8 to 10 boat lengths to deal with the additional compression of the fleet at the bottom of the course, due to the success of the windward gates. We had to add an additional mark boat to handle the additional marks at the top of the course, we shrank the 2nd beat each race to help with time management on the race course, which also gave an additional opportunity to keep the course square which is very important due to the 28 boat length spread at the top of the course.

I think that especially in big fleets, the windward gate offers great tactical opportunities and makes the racing more competitive.


stevew
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Aug 4, 2008, 7:04 PM

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I was at the Etchells mid winters and was quite keen to try the windward gate. There were close to 100 boats there, and the line up to the 1st weather mark was atrocious...

While I was keen to try the windward gate, I had no idea how it would work out, I couldn't imagine that even a crack RC could keep 4 windward marks all square. Well, it turns out they can. All four marks were fairly placed in each race, and eventually the fleet split evenly around the marks.

I witnessed no collisions but I would say each mark rounding involved many fouls. The boats rounding the starboard mark were on port, with spinnakers flying, threading themselves through the upwind boats on starboard. For the most part the Etchells fleet is populated with gentlemen, and never was it more obvious than on those roundings, as despite the flagrant fouls, the upwind boats granted the spinnaker boats right of way.

So, I would say the windward gate was somewhat successful, as it allowed the tail-end Charlies a chance to stay closer to the front, it was also disappointing that there was no way to go to the stbd mark without fouling the upwind boats (but god bless them for not making too much noise).

I don't know the answer, maybe longer offsets? (but then even better RC work is required).

Maybe we should just have smaller fleets? Why can't we have gold and silver fleets?




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Aug 5, 2008, 7:20 AM

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Here are some additional links on the subject:
RRS (rules analysis): http://rrsstudy.blogspot.com/...ules-analysis-1.html
Sailing World: http://forums.sailingworld.com/blogs/?q=node/127
Regatta Promotions: http://www.regattapromotions.com/...rd-gates-pro-or-con/


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Feb 11, 2009, 12:08 PM

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Stirring up the windward-leeward game
(February 5, 2009) Last year the Etchells Jaguar Cup employed windward mark gates in their 90-boat fleet to mixed reviews. Once they added the offset marks, it became a whole new game. In the 08-09 Jaguar Series, the Race Committee has set windward gates in each race for the 60-boat fleet, in addition to utilizing the leeward gate.

The windward gates add a new tactical facet to the regular windward leeward race. It makes the race more challenging for the leaders to hold their lead, diminishes the starboard tack layline parade, and forces the sailors to commit early to a side. Olympic medalist Mike Wolfs points out, “The big question is when to decide whether to go right.” Since you come off the right windward mark on port, you have to check the upwind traffic to make sure the option to gybe right away is there, or that you can easily continue on port.

Going downwind, the racecourse becomes two parallel courses which often does not allow the rich to get richer the way a single windward mark used to. And while the middle used to be off limits due to the wind vacuum created by the boats behind, the greater opening between the left and right offset marks makes it a viable option.

As most Etchells are set up for port roundings, turning right at the top mark is a new challenge for the crew. Some crews are moving the spinnaker pole to the boom, which makes for easier launching on either tack, other crews simply toss the kite around the jib and do a windward hoist.

Greek ISAF member and Etchells sailor, George Andreadis, pointed out today that setting windward gates is great for shallow water, but not so easy on the RC when changing course in 100 feet of water. In Biscayne Bay with 10 or so feet of water, it’s a workout for the mark boat operators, but not insurmountable, as they have shown.

For skipper and crew, the addition of the windward gate has added new and interesting tactical options to the standard windward leeward large fleet regatta. It probably would not provide the same benefits for a smaller fleet, but for a large one, it separates the fleet, limits the windward mark parade, and provides new opportunities downwind. -- Paige Brooks, http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/news/08/jaguar/#3


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Feb 11, 2009, 12:09 PM

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From Scuttlebutt 2778:

* From John Rumsey: (re, windward mark gate) I was on Biscayne Bay last
weekend watching the Etchells fleet round the weather marks gate in one of
their races on Sunday and noticed a problem with weather gate system. With the
large 60 boat fleet approaching the marks, the lead boats at the port rounding
(right mark) were unable to head down the course until they cleared the long
line of starboard tackers on the lay line to both marks. However, the
starboard mark rounders (left mark) were able to go down the course as soon as
they cleared the offset mark.


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Feb 11, 2009, 12:10 PM

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From Bill Porter:
I sailed this past weekend in the Etchells regatta in Miami, and it was the first time I sailed with the windward gates. To my knowledge we have had one broken mast and several boats with holes that have sent competitors home for the day since this experiment was started last year. This is not a way to keep competitors happy and coming back. The gates are not always square, although the RC gives its best effort, but I did see that the gates are even but the standoff marks are not. Biscayne Bay is very shallow and easy to set marks, but how can you set 4 marks square to the wind in other areas where the water can be 50-100 feet deep.

Also some people say you end up with two tracks to the leeward mark and that there is a new middle lane, which is not true, there is no air in the middle until halfway down the run if ever. This is because you have two lay lines going for marks that are not up wind, and with the new 3 boat length circle the marks have to be a minimum of 180 feet apart so a 5 degree shift at the top can make the one gate significantly favored to one side or the other. Once you are on the run you better like that side since you cannot go back to the other side.

The windward gate may work in large dingy fleets that can maneuver easily, but in Etchells with spinnakers set up for a port rounding it is very hard and dangerous to change plans at the last second. I believe that this has caused more damage to boats, and is not fun but a tactical nightmare and 90% of the boats go to the port gate anyway. I also do not think this experiment is being done with any data collection (this is an experiment). If this experiment was being done in a way to improve the sport, we would have seen other classes with large fleets try and to my knowledge no one has. Where is the data to support that this is a good or bad idea. Please help put a stop to this nonsense as it will not grow the sport.


TimPlatt
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Feb 13, 2009, 10:18 AM

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The current dissension on windward gates may reflect an experiential gap, but in any event should be considered by the Organizing Authority (OA) in light of such factors as the expected size and profile of the fleet, and average water depth and sea state in the racing area, before writing the Notice of Race (NoR), so that the race committee and competitors can plan their race schedules, trips, race administration and practice needs well in advance.

After participation in 7 regattas with windward gates, my opinion has evolved from skepticism to support of their use, at least in larger fleets, primarily because they increase competitiveness and strategic and tactical choices throughout the entire race, and reward superior boat handling. In summary, windward gates force us to improve our game, and keep it fun and challenging, for some of the specific reasons articulated by Bill Lynn, Dave Perry, Mike Wolf, and George Andreadis in earlier posts in this Forum.

However, given the relative novelty of windward gates to many racers, it is not yet clear whether the net benefits of windward gates are sufficient for small- and mid-sized fleets, where newcomers (whether competitors or race committees) may place more value on the familiar than on learning new methods, tactics and boat handling skills that they will not use often.

For fleets smaller than 50, where the first leg is greater than 1.5 miles or the fleet ranges in talent, there will often be enough separation among the competitors at the top mark that the arguments in favor of windward gates (i.e., stacked starboard laylines, over-crowding and port-starboard mayhem in the zone, wide/long dead-air zones downhill of the offset mark, and downwind parades) are mitigated.

The OA should assess the impact of all these factors in deciding what is appropriate to promote vigorous, fair and fun competition for its regatta or series, and then specify in the NoR whether windward gates will or may be used. In fairness to all competitors, it is simply too late to wait until the Sailing Instructions are published to decide/disclose whether windward gates will be used, because racers will often have already paid the entry fee and made travel, transport and lodging plans.

Tim Platt
Marblehead, MA





Kin Yellott
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Feb 15, 2009, 1:52 PM

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My first experience with weather gates was last weekend with the E-22's
We were one of the boats that got caught in what felt like a Joseph Conrad short story.
Has anyone tried using weather mark gates, but go thru the other way?
as in take right hand mark to port, left hand mark to stbd?
We get to try again in a couple of weeks!


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Apr 21, 2009, 9:44 AM

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Experience the Windward Gate
By Dave Brennan IRO
Graphics by Mark Fortin and Kattack

During the 2008 Etchells Florida State Championship with 90 boats on the starting line, after one start I proceeded to the single weather mark for the windward finish and was surprised to see the magnitude of the congestion at the windward mark after a two mile leg. The starboard tack lay line stack-up was ½ nm long. Some of the boats in the middle and the back of the fleet had over stood the windward mark by ¼ nm. Boats exiting the offset mark for the first run became a parade with starboard tack boats hesitant to jibe.

Determined to find a better way to handle the weather mark, I thought of resurrecting Paul Elvstrom’s windward gate. I spoke to Tom Piper, the Etchells Class President, and he referred me to the Etchell Class Rules Committee and they found no reason that I couldn’t proceed with using a windward gate. Consulting with some of the top one-design race officers in the world today, Tom Duggan, Dick Neville, Peter Reggio, Ken Legler, and Charley Cook and top one-design sailors like Bill Hardesty, Jud Smith, Dave Perry, Bill Lynn, Bruce Golison, Morgan Reeser; each had input in the process and had many good suggestions on how to improve the game using the windward gate.

Getting the proper width of the windward gate was the first goal. Using a windward gate, we knew that we would have more compression at the leeward gate so we made the leeward gate a little wider. We settled on 12-boat lengths width for the 90-boat fleet.

I wanted to try the windward gate without offsets to simplify the mark setting. Without offsets the windward gate didn’t prove to be as user friendly as I had hoped. With the introduction of offsets to the weather gate, the congestion markedly decreased. With a single windward mark and offset, the time window at the finish line would be more than 10 minutes. With the windward gate, the time window at the finish was inside five minutes. That means we were keeping more of the boats on the racecourse in closer competition.

A windward gate with offsets demands more resources, requiring an additional windward mark boat to facilitate course changes. We adjusted the windward mark for each beat, sometimes only to shorten the length of the leg for time management purposes. All of our mark boats operate with GPS’s that read out in feet. This allows us to be very accurate in positioning the gate and offset marks. The length of the leg to the offset marks, for example, was usually within 6’ of each other. Because we sail in relatively shallow water, (15 feet) it allows us to customize our ground tackle to maximize the accuracy in our mark positioning. We try to keep the windward gate as narrow as possible minimizing the risk of a competitor picking the wrong side of a gate.

The windward gate changes the game for the competitor. One of the consequences of using the windward gate is after the first beat the fleet splits into two groups on the way to the leeward gate. One of the complaints from the boats up front is that they have to sail against another fleet of boats on the other side of the racecourse. Because of the separation, if there is a wind shift or there is more pressure on one side there can be big gains and big loses. Tactically the boats up front are prepared to defend against the boats that round behind them, but having to defend against the boats that rounded the other windward gate mark is making their job more difficult. One of the reasons for greater acceptance of the windward gate at this time is that many competitors match race and team race which involve starboard roundings, so it is natural and easy for them to consider the windward gate as an asset and an additional strategic tool.

Kattack Performance Software offers a Bird’s Eye View of the racecourse. Let’s take a quick look comparing the 83-boat fleet at the 2008 Etchells World Championship in Chicago and the 55 boat Midwinter Fleet.

Kattack Performance Software offers a Bird’s Eye View of the race course. Let’s take a look at an example of my discussion using the results of Kattack replays comparing the 83-boat fleet at the 2008 Etchells World Championship in Chicago and the 55-boat fleet at the 2009 Etchells Midwinter’s in Miami. Here are some web shots sent over from Mark Fortin of Kattack.

Let’s first take a look at the 2008 Etchells Worlds using a single windward mark:

Note: In the image above the fleet is heading to the first windward mark, the starboard tack layline starts .33nm from the windward mark.



Fleet is heading downwind on the first run after the offset; boats exiting the offset mark for the first run became a parade with starboard jibe boats hesitant to jibe.


Let’s first take a look at the 2009 Etchells Mid-Winters using a windward gate:

55 boats sailing. Notice how the fleet develops...not creating a big stack-up on the starboard layline.


Fleet is separated downwind.

I would recommend that anyone interested in comparing the windward gate with offsets and the single windward mark with an offset should have a look at the Kattack web site www.kattack.com and see the difference between the 2008 Etchells World Championship in Chicago and the 2009 Etchells Midwinter’s in Miami or click on the following links to display the races we have discussed:

2008 Etchells Worlds Race 2: http://www.kattack.com/webplayer?raceGUID=9c654769-9460-4268-8d5b-f5e70aad783f&startTime=71

2009 Etchells Midwinter’s Race 2: http://www.kattack.com/webplayer?raceGUID=99f6c8f0-571f-4744-a9d6-cbcb0d967af0&startTime=55






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Apr 21, 2009, 10:55 AM

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I am not sure if it has been mentioned in this thread, but among the windward gate effects is how boats can approach the starboard layline of the left mark. With a single mark, the layline gets stacked, making it common to do clearing tacks to maintain a lane after getting tacked on. With the windward gate, the right mark becomes the bail out option, with Plan A being the left mark and Plan B being the right mark. If the approach to the left mark gets too clogged, rather than having to do clearing tacks, you can instead use the right mark.


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