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Forum Index: DISCUSSION: Dock Talk:
True Circumnavigation 		Team McLube

 
 


steveold
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Jan 14, 2010, 9:19 PM

Post #1 of 8 (9814 views)
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With all these kids these days claiming to be attempting "smash records", to be the youngest etc etc,
to "Circumnavigate and/or sail RTW", I'm curious if someone out there can come up with a VALID
definition of "Circumnavigation", or explain how a sailor can claim to have circumnavigated the earth
WITHOUT crossing or rounding the Antipodal Points.
And what's the difference, if any, between a Circumnavigation and a RTW?
Pretty much any search result on the subject on Google mentions the antipodal point as a requisite.

(No wonder ISAF, through the WSSR Council have washed their hands of youngest, oldest and handicapped
categories)

A couple of quotes I've stumbled across through Google......
"A true circumnavigation of the world must pass through two points antipodean to each other."
Norris McWhirter, founding editor of Guinness, 1971.

"A true circumnavigation of the world ... where the track passed over 2 points antipodean to each other ... a circumnavigation where the vessel passes through two points on the earth's surface which are diametrically opposite each other ..."
Sir Francis Chichester, Gipsy Moth Circles the World, 1967.

I fail to see how a current "Attemptee", Jessica Watson, should she be successful, can claim a circumnavigation, when her voyage consists of a quick sprint to a point a few miles North of the Equator in the Pacific, South to Cape Horn, and then what can at best described as a partial Circumnavigation of Antartica!
At least previous RTW's commencing in the Southern Hemisphere have, after rounding the Horn,
achieved their equator crossings in the North Atlantic. A much longer, difficult and hazardous route.
Looking forward to valid comments, not unauthenticated fantasies and wishful thinking.


The Publisher
*****


Jan 15, 2010, 6:28 AM

Post #2 of 8 (9799 views)
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Re: [steveold] True Circumnavigation [In reply to] Log-In to Post/Reply
The governing body that manages sailing records (WSSRC) defines a circumnavigation in this manner:

To sail around the World, a vessel must start from and return to the same point, must cross all meridians of longitude and must cross the Equator. It may cross some but not all meridians more than once (i.e. two roundings of Antarctica do not count). The shortest orthodromic track of the vessel must be at least 21,600 nautical miles in length calculated based on a 'perfect sphere'. In calculating this distance, it is to be assumed that the vessel will sail around Antarctica in latitude 63 degrees south. A vessel starting from any point where the direct orthodromic distance is too short shall pass one single island or other fixed point on a required side so as to lengthen his orthodromic track to the minimum distance. No starting point will be permitted more south than 45 ° south. One degree of longitude at 63 degrees south will be taken as 27.24NM.


steveold
***

Jan 15, 2010, 2:29 PM

Post #3 of 8 (9788 views)
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Re: [The Publisher] True Circumnavigation [In reply to] Log-In to Post/Reply
Not quite right.
The quoted WSSRC's rule applies to a RTW. It makes no mention of Circumnavigation.

This from John Reed regarding Ms Watson's voyage.
"This voyage is not being sailed in accordance with the WSSR rules so the question of ratification does not arise."
John Reed
Secretary to the WSSR Council

See Rule 26.1.a. RTW It does not include the word Circumnavigation.
I am seeking a ruling of Circumnavigation and the difference between RTW.


willbaillieu
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Jan 16, 2010, 3:45 AM

Post #4 of 8 (9780 views)
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I can hardly believe what I am reading.
Did you write this from a comfortable armchair?
This kid, Jessica Watson, has just successfully sailed around Cape Horn in a little S&S 32! She is now in the Southern Ocean with about 10,000 miles to go on her circumnavigation; on her own. The temperature is about 6C.
Not good enough for you?
Right now she is surfing down the infamous icy Grey Beards in a 45 knot gale, over the graves of log lost sailors and sailing ships; on her own.
I am impressed. I defy anyone not to be impressed with the calm, capable and cheery way she has gone about her voyage.
You simply can't sail around the world on the equator because there is just too much land in the way. Her route takes her through some of the most treacherous and dangerous seas on earth. She will now sail for several months in the furious fifties and roaring forties as they rampage unimpeded around the earth, to reach Sydney.
So get off your high horse and give the girl a break.
She is a throw back to heros and heroines of old.
And she may yet be the youngest ever to circumnavigate the earth solo.





waiknot
****

Jan 18, 2010, 5:58 PM

Post #5 of 8 (9744 views)
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Re: [willbaillieu] True Circumnavigation [In reply to] Log-In to Post/Reply
You can't knock Jessica Watson for her achievement(s) despite the rocky start.

If she was my daughter, I'm not to sure if she would be doing the circumnavigation just yet.

However it is necassary to have a minimum requirement set for a sailing adventure to be considered a true circumnavigation so in the future differing achievements can be compared





cowabunga
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May 1, 2010, 11:58 AM

Post #6 of 8 (4720 views)
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In Reply To
I can hardly believe what I am reading.
Did you write this from a comfortable armchair?



Surely where it is written from is of no importance. There are definitions for "round the world" and the question of whether jessica meets the definition is an important one.

This is no way takes away from her accomplishment. However if you want to claim a "record" then surely there is a requirement to show you have achieved the rules.

I note the offical jessica watson website says she is doing 23 000 nm - which they say is approximately 38 000 km. Now that is obviously an error. I wonder how far the voyage actually is? 38 000 km is not long enough to meet the "traditional" rules of round the world voyage.

Now from the comfort of my work chair (not quite a lounge chair) I am quite happy saying that John Glenn went into orbit. Great achievement. Had he claimed to have circumnavigated the moon I would have had an issue.

Basically if you want to claim a "record" then you need to actually prove you meet the requirements.


Andrew Troup
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May 18, 2010, 8:18 PM

Post #7 of 8 (2702 views)
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All I can say is that her handlers should be ashamed. She of course has nothing to be ashamed of, quite the reverse, but if they wish to continue to claim that she has broken Jesse whats-his-face's record, they should have bitten the bullet when their error (if it was an error) became clear, and advised her to detour around a suitable island

The accumulated distance is measured in straight lines from headland to headland, so it has to be a physical entity rather than a waypoint. This was the only way to get things back to a situation where her voyage passed the same criteria as his.

She will regret that bad advice for some time to come, is my sorry prediction.

The distance her handlers were claiming (which was sufficient for a record) was based on actual sailboat meanderings rather than straight line.
This is fine if you simply want to tell how far she's gone, but that's not how record distances are measured. Otherwise one could simply clock up thousands of miles beam reaching north and south in tradewinds latitudes, going nowhere, if one were so inclined. It doesn't matter that no-one would do that; it's on a seamless continuum with how her route was shaped, and there has to be a seam, however arbitrary, or there can be no meaningful concept of a record.

I have to say it's perplexing that those who take a contrary view virtually always paint a view like mine as an attack on her achievement.
I've only come across a couple of instances of her achievement being questioned, a tiny proportion of interested parties.

Get with the programme, people, it's tedious hearing repeated rebuttals of virtually non-existent points of view.


A big pat on the back to the WSSR for ditching those categories, which were never a sustainable idea, and a big thumbs down to her handlers for trying to exploit that situation for blatant, self-serving manipulation of public opinion.

I'm referring to their claim that she doesn't have to comply with the same rules Jesse did, because that category no longer exists.





steveold
***

May 18, 2010, 9:21 PM

Post #8 of 8 (2696 views)
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Spot on, Andrew, although its difficult believe, with all the experience that her "handlers" claim
she has, that she could be so naive to believe them and not smell a rat!
She must accept a portion of the blame and criticism, albeit a little!


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