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Forum Index: DISCUSSION: Dock Talk:
Looking for Herreshoff hull #512 		Team McLube

 
 


Joseph Hartwick
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Oct 12, 2010, 7:55 AM

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Looking for Herreshoff hull #512 Log-In to Post/Reply
This racing yacht was commissioned by J. Rogers Maxwell in 1899. My interest in this boat started when my dad aquired a silver race trophy cup for first place for this boat named at that time "Oiseau" from the Sea Cliff Yacht Club. The second owner was Victor L. Cumnock, and he rechristened the boat "Nike". Mostly I am just curious if this boat still exists somewhere. I would think Herreshoff boats are not casually tossed out when worn like a cheap bass boat. My dad was an avid sailor when he was younger, but at 75 years of age and a brand new replacement shoulder have slowed him up a tick. But getting the history behind his 100 plus year old trophy cup has really brightened up his eyes. So any help you guys can give me as to where this fine old boat is, or what happened to her will be most appreciated!


Joseph Hartwick
**

Oct 12, 2010, 8:45 AM

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Oh, and does anyone know of a contact at Sea Cliff Yacht club? They do not answer their phone, their mail or their e-mail. I have been to their web-site:
https://www.memberstatements.com/...gin.cfm?clubid=12748 and only wish to find out if they have race records from the early 1900's. I'd like to know who was skippering Oiseau when she won her race (don't have the date with me at the moment).


HCR
*

Oct 13, 2010, 1:41 AM

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Oiseau was built in 1899 for Henry L. Maxwell of New York, son of J. Rogers Maxwell, president of the Central Railroad of New-Jersey. She was launched in May 1899 at the Herreshoff Manufacturing Company, contract number #512s, and her dimensions were 42 feet over all, 35 feet water line, 10 feet beam and 6 feet draft. In 1899 she was almost invincible, but she was beaten several times in later years when faster boats appeared on the racing scene. In 1901 she was sold to Gordon L. Pirie, a well-known Long Island Sound racing sailor who won the Long Island Championship that year with her. In 1902, she was sold again, this time to Isaac Stern of the New York Yacht, who sent her to Kiel, Germany, to successfully compete in the races there under the name of Virginia II. By 1903 she was back on Long Island Sound, again owned by H. L. Maxwell and again under her old name of Oiseau. The following year she was sold once again, to Victor L. Cumnock, of the Seawanhaka-Corinthian Y. C., and renamed Nike. In 1910 Cumnock sold her to Hollis Burgess, a well-known racer of Herreshoff yachts, who renamed her once again Virginia, and raced her with exceptional success in Boston waters. The following year, in 1911, she was once again sold, this time to Charles L. Joy, of Dorchester, Mass. She was still listed as being owned by C. L. Joy in 1917.

When was your Sea Cliff Y. C. Regatta? July 27, 1901?

Please send me a private mail if you wish to receive more info about Oiseau, including a couple more photos.


The Publisher
*****


Oct 13, 2010, 11:29 AM

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In response to Joseph Hartwick and the query about the Herreshoff design #512 -- OISEAU: there are numerous resources available in your quest to find more information.

There is a Herreshoff register of all the designs and as much information about them as possible, including current owners if the boats have survived -- along with whatever info is known. I found that on line a month or so ago and you should try searching for it. You should also contact the Herreshoff Museum in Bristol, RI.

Further resources are at the Hart Nautical Museum which is part of M. I. T where a lot of Herreshoff plans and information are located. And try doing a plain old search in the internet by the boat name and design number, as you never know what you will find.

I chuckled at Mr. Hartwick's comment about no one would throw a Herreshoff away. In fact many Herreshoff yachts were lightly built for purposes of speed and their prowess on the race course is, of course, well known. The light construction wasn't always an advantage for durability nor did a lot of folks treasure their boats. Often an owner traded in their race boats on a regular basis and so there were varying degrees of maintenance. Some boats had great owners (and paid crew) plus unlimited budgets but other boats were owned by impecunious owners with very limited budgets. A boat can only go so long with a limited budget and then little problems start to build into large ones.. Further, depending upon the budget the boat could have been built with iron fastenings as, for instance, a lot of the earlier H 12 1/2's were. Over time the evils of iron will have led to very expensive problems for owners and those boats were often scrapped as the cost of rebuilding would approach or even exceed new build.

This is a very simplistic (and hasty) answer but just an example of the sorts of resources that are available about classic boats and classic designs. One of the great joys of winter for a boat person is undertaking some research about a boat, a designer, or a class. So there is your winter project.

Good luck, Ginny Jones




Joseph Hartwick
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Oct 14, 2010, 8:20 PM

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Thank you VERY MUCH for the great info!!!! I have tried many many searches on the internet for history of this boat, but you folks have provided me with more details than I ever found, and I figure you know better places to look than me. I did find Herreshoff's on line registery and got some info there, but it is incomplete. I have recently sent an e-mail to the curator of Herreshoff's museum. Sea Cliff Yacht club does not respond to phone calls, e-mails, etc. I also found several on-line articles from NY times archives about the boat Oiseau, but not about the race engraved on my dad's trophy cup. Apparently J. R. Maxwell was quite a yachtsman before his sudden death, as was his father and son. I don't have the date handy at this moment, but July of 1901 sounds right. My dad recently sold his last boat and at 75, I think he won't be buying another, but he will always be a sailor, and undoubtedly will crew on his friends' boats in the Great Lakes if asked. It's his passion, and seeing his face light up when I presented him with the info that I had gathered, was well worth the effort. Same as what I would feel if someone gave me an autographed World Series baseball (my passion). My other passion is old John Deere tractors, so if any of you have a green machine you want to know more about, I'll GLADLY help. I know places to look for info on these, but not so much with boats.


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