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Forum Index: DISCUSSION: Dock Talk:
Engines and the America's Cup 		Team McLube

 
 


The Publisher
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Nov 11, 2009, 5:57 PM

Post #1 of 7 (2914 views)
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Engines and the America's Cup Log-In to Post/Reply
BRING BACK THE GRINDERS
By Bill Trenkle

I have watched the BMW Oracle Racing onboard video and heard the engine roar. Having done some time grinding before moving to trimming and getting to work with a dozen or so grinders during my eight America’s Cups, I am now truly dismayed for all the grinders in America’s Cup history.

The quality of your grinders was so important to your performance, and the grinders were so much the personality of the America’s Cup teams from 1958 to 2007 that their elimination from the competition is really a much bigger change in our sport than it has been portrayed by anyone. Having grinders that were stronger, quicker, and smarter than the other team was an integral part of each campaign.

The ease with which Alinghi has dispatched them from the America’s Cup is hard to believe. Yes, maybe a motor can pull the sail in faster than your grinders but BOR also had to deal with the same issue. It is grueling to grind on a big overpowered multihull. When the traveler is eased down it is a long way grinding it up. That’s why attentive grinders are needed, that’s why we had a multihull helmsman like Cam Lewis beef up so he could be the main grinder on the Stars & Stripes cat in the 1988 Match.

What edge did Alinghi get when they added a motor? Absolutely none because Oracle matched them, so all they did was take away a fantastic part of America’s Cup history and competition. Sailing is considered by most of the public as wimpy enough, at least the grinders always made the sport a little more macho. Alinghi, you screwed up big time on this one, let’s put Rule 52 back in. I am sure BOR would go for it; now is your chance to save a little face.

Note: Here is the the video if you missed it: http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/media/09/1106/




TimDick
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Nov 11, 2009, 6:39 PM

Post #2 of 7 (2899 views)
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Re: [The Publisher] Engines and the America's Cup [In reply to] Log-In to Post/Reply
If you use an engine (particularly hundreds of horsepower) you might as well admit it, and attach a prop. to it and dispense with all that rigging.

We must admit that new materials (for thousands of years in the spirit of sailing) have facilitated light yachts and big rigs resulting in planing boats for the first time in history - sailing's equivalent of breaking the sound barrier. These boats are fun to sail and fun to watch. But safely keeping up with such beasts has driven us to pushbutton sailing. If we want that, allow stored energy (e.g. batteries, capacitors) from grinders. That creates human and sail powered innovation in the spirit of Americas Cup and other great regattas.

Otherwise I'd rather watch an honest offshore powerboat race where everyone admits its a battle of horsepower.

Tim Dick
San Francisco & Honolulu


willbaillieu
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Nov 12, 2009, 2:46 AM

Post #3 of 7 (2835 views)
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Re: [The Publisher] Engines and the America's Cup [In reply to] Log-In to Post/Reply
I'm with you Bill Trenkle. You have summed it up absolutely perfectly.
I only did one AC campaign, in '83, but it was a wonderful, exciting campaign, and the time spent on the handles with Richo, The Major and Chink was what made it what it was.
We all thought of ourselves as trimmers, with a little guy tailing for us on the drum (sorry Skip). On the water we reckoned we could out muscle anyone, and on shore we were the kings of dock, as the song goes "six foot four and full of muscle".
Our pride was to translate the helmsman's thoughts into action, by rapid and reliable response, every time, all the time.
Building these huge, freak multi hulls, so big that human power alone cannot trim the sails is a stupid, wasteful, unnecessary extravagance.
Nobody has benefited. There has not been one good outcome from this whole saga.
Bring back human crew AC boats and bring back the grinders.
The addition of motors is a disgrace to the event.


wondsteve
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Nov 12, 2009, 7:25 AM

Post #4 of 7 (2787 views)
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While I totally agree with Bill Trenkle, while watching the Alinghi video, I was just as totally excited by the dweeb carrying the briefcase from hull to hull when the cat tacked. At this rate, we'll have iPhone apps to generate tacking angles, code-writers and programmers hidden down in the hulls to replace those bulky grinder guys...after all, blisters and muscle aches have never been a true part of sailing. So much easier to treat mouse-caused wrist injuries...

So exciting.

WondSteveWink


Bill Gladstone
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Nov 12, 2009, 9:56 AM

Post #5 of 7 (2750 views)
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Motors in lieu of grinders is lousy, but it was a strategic move on Alinghi's part. What edge did Alinghi get when they added a motor? They included the motor as part of their original design (and built a cat). BMW Oracle opted for a tri perhaps in part to accommodate the grinders and gear needed to trim the enormous rig. They have since reconfigured, but who knows how different their original design might have been had they not needed to include grinders and related gear (a cat perhaps?). The motor was part of a clever design strategy on Alinghi's part. Hopefully once we get past this travesty motors will be prohibited in the AC going forward.


maxmini
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Nov 12, 2009, 7:04 PM

Post #6 of 7 (2607 views)
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As a young teen I was lucky enough to walk out on the pier and stand within five feet of Intrepid during one of the early America's Cup races in Newport R.I. The sight of those massive coffee grinders made a lasting impression on me . I wasn't able to get my hands on one until I relocated out here to California and then availed myself of every opportunity until that was pretty much all I was doing sailing wise.I bounced around on a variety of local boats in the L.A area and first real top local program was grinding for you, Bill ,on Evolution for several seasons . I completely agree with you that something is missing without the " meat " on board. The timing , training and ability to out grunt the other guy on a tough upwind tacking duel was a key part of big boat sailing . To see it gone for whatever reason diminishes the event in my eyes to a great deal . With all powered winches on board how soon before there are charges of hidden computer systems calling the shots based on board or even remote data acquisition ?

Randy


Mal
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Nov 13, 2009, 11:37 AM

Post #7 of 7 (2568 views)
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Obviously AC 33 is an aberration similar the the Big Boat/Cat contest of 88. Might as well have motors or anything else that can be crammed on to a 90 foot boat. I'm really rootin for BOR but simple is often better and Alinghi's cat sure looks simple. At any rate, I am certain that the catharsis of 33 will be replaced by a more conventional boat in 34 and the grinders will be back.

I can't resist an edit. Though I totally agree that the engine is an abomination; the collective we were having the same discussions about aluminum, fiberglass, carbon fiber, winged keels, various levels of instrumentation and on and on. Reminds me of the joke, how many sailors does it take to change a light bulb? Three, one to change the bulb and two to talk about how great the old one was. If the truth be known I likely resemble that remark.
Check Six .......Mal




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