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Forum Index: DISCUSSION: Dock Talk:
Competitive imbalance in college sailing
Team McLube

 

 


The Publisher
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May 14, 2010, 11:51 AM

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When qualifications for the 2010 College National Dinghy Championship (June 1-3) was completed, the dominance of the Mid-Atlantic and New England districts was evident. Among the seven districts that comprise the Inter-Collegiate Sailing Association (ICSA), the MAISA and the NEISA held 15 of the 18 available entry slots. This is the second year of a new qualifying system that provides each district with berths to the Semi-Final Championship, but then only the top 18 from the Semi-Finals advance to the Finals. Here is some commentary on this imbalance:
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* From John Glynn:
With the new qualification ladder for the ICSA National Dinghy Championship, the end result is that three of seven districts are not represented at the championship. I find this unfortunate. Yes, I understand that sometimes the fifth best team in NEISA or MAISA might be better than the second best team in the Midwest district. But it appears that this year the Nationals will be pretty much an all New England vs Mid-Atlantic affair.

It used to be that each district had a certain number of qualifiers to the Nationals, based on strength of region. This worked well for years. To have three districts not even represented seems odd. As a Midwest college sailor who did “ok” (and had a great/ fun experience) at the Nationals way back in the stone ages, I am a little disappointed not to see any representation.

One thing for sure, the new qualifying system will shift the balance of power in sailing even further toward the Eastern schools, recruiting-wise. The top three schools at the High School Dinghy Nationals this year were all from California, yet where are those kids going to go to college? No longer might a high school kid with aspirations to college sailing and a good education look at a Midwest or West Coast or Southern school as a backup if they don’t get into Brown, Harvard, Yale (or similar). Advantage Roger Williams, Salve Regina, UVM, and the like. Also, funny that the district that’s hosting Nationals does not have a qualifier.
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* From Mitch Brindley, ICSA President:
Yes it is a clear observation that the only one non-East coast team made it to the final round of the ICSA National Dinghy Championships.

It is important to remember that the Semi-Final events in Seattle and Charleston were the first round of the ICSA National Dinghy Championships. When a team qualifies for the ICSA National Championship Semifinals, that team has qualified for the ICSA Championship. And every team has the opportunity to sail their way into the Finals. This is very similar to other collegiate sports.

I think everyone would agree that it would be best if the Semi-Finals could take place immediately before the Finals at the venue, like we do for the Team Race and now Women's. However it is not functionally possible given the field of teams and the limited time frame of the hosts and most importantly, the students (some schools are still in session).

Starting in 2011, the Semi-Finals are being consolidated at one venue or two venues in close proximity. This should help raise the stature of the event. Last year in Boston we had both fleets of 18 teams together and it was great.

The more important question is what can ICSA do to further develop the competitive depth of the districts in the Northwest, Pacific Coast, Southeast, and Midwest? Clearly great juniors are coming from these locales, but that is nothing new.


The Publisher
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May 14, 2010, 11:52 AM

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June 1-3: ICSA/Gill Coed Dinghy Championship
MAISA - (7) Hobart and William Smith, Navy, Old Dominion, St. Mary's, Georgetown, New York Maritime, King's Point
MCSA - (0)
NEISA - (8) Tufts, Boston College, Yale, Harvard, Brown, Salve Regina, Roger Williams, Vermont
NWICSA - (0)
PCCSC - (1) Stanford
SAISA - (2) Charleston, Southern Florida
SEISA - (0)

District list
MAISA - Middle Atlantic Intercollegiate Sailing Association
MCSA - Midwest Collegiate Sailing Association
NEISA - New England Intercollegiate Sailing Association
NWICSA - Northwest Intercollegiate Sailing Association
PCCSC - Pacific Coast Collegiate Sailing Conference
SAISA - South Atlantic Intercollegiate Sailing Association
SEISA - Southeastern Intercollegiate Sailing Association

Nationals website: http://2010nationals.collegesailing.org


fwmueller
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May 18, 2010, 7:22 PM

Post #3 of 9 (3722 views)
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This is quite a dilemma. And I am sure that the concerns of all are merited.

I was fortunate to come from Tabor Academy as captain to sail at Tufts (class of '77) under the legendary coach Joe Duplin. My collegiate career was somewhat unremarkable, as I was tied up with sailing Stars and Finns most of the time.

For those of you who remember, the Northeast and Tufts in particular, was considered the epicenter of collegiate racing for many years. Originally from Florida, college sailing was important to me, and it has been a life choice, good or bad. If one was interested in the sport, then New England was the place to be. I often think of guys like Sam Kerner, who came to Tufts from Hawaii and developed his talent to become hugely successful in the Laser and Finn, chiefly because of the environment he chose to be in at Tufts, and his incredible commitment.

Among the many "Duplinisms" was a saying that "you are only as good as your competition"...my classmates, under his wing, could certainly attest to that, and especially how ruthless daily practice was. Incredibly, Ken Legler (another Tabor Teammate) has very capably has carried on with that tradition after Joe.

The USA challenges competitive sailors of all disciplines like no other area. Geographically, it is daunting to train and race with the best, very unlike Europe. The Collegiate picture is particularly hampered by scheduling and budgets....and not much more needs comment in this regard.

My argument is, that though it is the pursuit of all sports to "level the field", there will always be, as in other sports, regions which are more competitive and are destined to bring out the best.

If you are serious about sailing more than other things, then that is the way it is. Do what it takes to be with the best, even if it means being far from home.

To guarantee a spot in a major championship because of geographical considerations does not do justice those committed to throw themselves at the wolves in every practice session, wherever it may be, with a hope to qualify and to have expectations of being amongst the best.


In Reply To


Bruce Thompson
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May 19, 2010, 1:36 AM

Post #4 of 9 (3712 views)
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This situation will not change until potential college sailors become willing to build a new or better program of their own, "Build it and they will come" for the sailing crowd. That's what my team did in the late Sixties-early Seventies. We raced in MAISA against the government funded powers SUNY - Maritime, USNA - Navy, USMMA - Kings Point. Nevertheless, I raced in the 1970 ICYRU Dinghy & Team Racing Championships at Madison, Wisconsin.

During my tenure, our team was in the process of building our own marina so we could sail during the week. "Practice"for us was the racing on Saturdays, our serious racing was on Sundays. Shortly after I graduated, our team produced three All-Americans in an era when there were no Honorable Mention or Crew or Women All-Americans.

DON'T MAKE EXCUSES, JUST DO IT!


smason
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May 19, 2010, 9:38 AM

Post #5 of 9 (3635 views)
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Southern California has been one of the hotbeds of high school sailing for the past 15 years. Whether it is year round sailing, strong club youth programs or strength in numbers is debateable. However, since Mikee Anderson and Brian Haines (Coronado 2002) went to USC and Stanford respectively, most of the top sailors have migrated east for college sailing (Campbell, Roberts, Martin, Sinks, Buckingham, Menninger(s), Bolger, Chamberlain, Provancha, Belling, etc.). This may ebb slightly this year with Laube (Pt. Loma) and Ryan (Cathedral Catholic) staying west for college, but sailors want to compete where the talent is and right now that is on the east coast. It takes time for systemic changes to take effect (i.e. adding semi's), and two years of NEISA and MAISA dominance is not enough time to draw conclusions. One point on the prior thread, most of the SoCal sailors eventually return home~you simply can not beat the weather.


The Publisher
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May 19, 2010, 3:42 PM

Post #6 of 9 (3585 views)
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Maybe the Semi-Final format has created two realities:

- It has allowed for more schools from the stronger districts to qualify for the National Coed Dinghy Championship Finals. As a result, if students were at one time hesitant to go to schools in those districts before the Semi-Final format because they feared not getting to Nationals, the new format may have now encouraged students to attend those schools. Result is the stronger districts get even stronger, and the weaker districts get even weaker.

- It has allowed more schools to advance from their district championship and go to the next level. Smaller districts that once allowed maybe one or two schools to advance to Nationals, now get more slots for the Semi-Final step. If students feared going to smaller districts before due to low odds of getting to Nationals now may look at these districts more favorably. Since no school gets an automatic bid to the Finals, the Semi-Finals are truely part of the National Championship. Result is that more schools from weaker districts get to experience a national caliber event.

Personally, my gut says that the first reality is more likely than the second. The first one provides stronger programs and high competition that is local, while the second one likely requires more work for the student.

If the goal is to keep top sailors from leaving their region, sailing associations that are in weaker districts need to figure out what they can do to help. If programs suffer due to water access and boat storage are issues, I would think that yacht clubs or community sailing centers would be eager to support college programs. Getting the students involved in these types of facilities improves the chances that they will remain active in both the community and the sport.

- Craig Leweck, Scuttlebutt




The Publisher
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May 19, 2010, 3:52 PM

Post #7 of 9 (3582 views)
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Scuttlebutt 3096:

* From Blake Middleton:
During my college years (late 70s/early 80s), there was a fair amount of balance around the nation. I can recall at least 7 MCSA teams with legitimate top 20 rankings at some point (Michigan, Miami of OH, Ohio Wesleyan, UW Green Bay, Notre Dame, Wisconsin, Southern Ill.). Michigan could go East and place or WIN intersectionals. Schools from the Northwest and Southeast like Washington, Texas and Tulane were among the very best (along with a few Canadian teams!).

During my coaching years, I made a proposal at one ICYRA annual meeting to add two extra ‘wild card’ teams at Nationals. My argument was why not simply add two more very good teams in addition to the existing District qualifiers? My idea got shot down hard - two years in a row. A few years later, a similar proposal passed, and one wild card actually WON a Nationals! The latest competition design has IMO clearly produced the most depth of competition at Nationals in history. But at what cost?

What has changed in the past 30 years? I’d suggest it’s the growth of professional coaching and college sailing programs. Only a few teams in 5 of the 7 districts currently enjoy that very real advantage as of 2010.

If you are a sailor or coach on a team in New England or Middle Atlantic, do you even care? High quality of competition at National Championships is here and is awesome! Now… how do we make the entire ICSA healthy?


The Publisher
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May 20, 2010, 7:47 PM

Post #8 of 9 (3369 views)
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Scuttlebutt 3097

* From Matthew Gregory:
As a former ICSA sailor from almost 11 years ago, please excuse that I am lobbing this comment into the mix from the back of the peanut gallery. I was saddened when the ICSA changed the format for the National Championship qualification. Since I have quite a bit of 'space' from college sailing I'd like to inject a distant perspective that might shed some light onto the long term net effect of this format change.

Many schools don't have the means to travel to out-of-district regattas. Don't, however, underestimate how incredibly motivating it is for schools in the geographically and financially challenged regions to represent their district at the National Championship regatta. Furthermore there is an incredible knowledge transfer that happens when the uncoached schools get the opportunity to match up against the best of the best. They take that knowledge back to their team practices and to their district events. At the end of the day, college sailing is about promoting participation in sailing as a lifelong sport.

To give some specific examples from our University of Michigan team: Most people on our team had never stepped foot into a dinghy before attending our team. Most of my teammates are still sailing, which is a fabulous net positive for our sport. One such person, who was introduced to dinghy sailing though our team - Bora Gulari - recently won the Moth Worlds and is the current Rolex U.S. Yachtsman of the Year.

As a high schooler, I had an end goal of working as an engineer at the America’s Cup and Volvo Ocean Race level. With an alumni list that included Nelson, Ferguson, Bedford, Reichel, etc, etc., the U. Michigan was the only place that I wanted to study. I did not have the opportunity to grow up in a junior sailing program, but because our team was able to participate in the elite intersectionals and in the National Championship, my learning curve was nearly vertical over my four years in college. Ultimately exposure to the best of the best at the college level led me to two America’s Cups and a Volvo Ocean Race. I fully credit the opportunities that were granted to me by the college sailing format to achieving my childhood dreams.

Don't over look the net effect of including each district in the National Championships. At the end of the regatta the best team in the country will still be crowned 'Champion' either way.


pjohns8
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May 21, 2010, 3:39 AM

Post #9 of 9 (3334 views)
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As the ICSA coaches will meet next week, they should not take this forum's opinions as so one sided. It is time the other side is heard. For the last three years I have participated in College Sailing as a Judge and Umpire In NEISA and MAISA and at the National Championships.

The Coed Semi Finals format has allowed the less experienced teams to get to an event which can have significance for their program. The scene in Boston (2009) was a great tribute to how well this format works. We should carry this through to the Team Race event to insure we get the best 16 teams to the Team Race Nationals. The recent NEISA Team Race Qualifier saw a fierce battle to get the top 3 slots for Nationals. But the next 3-5 teams would be much more competitive than some of the teams represented out of the the weaker districts. The argument for districts just perpetuates the weaker districts and does nothing to raise the level of the game.

The coaches in NEISA have been ahead of the game. Three years ago they undertook to raise the level by adding a Judge and Umpire Coordinator to get high level officiating to their major events. Since that time, many former college sailors have taken and passed the US Sailing Judge and Umpire tests and have begun to give back to the entire game of sailing. With the cooperation of US Sailing and the NEISA coaches they have raised the level of officiating and competition for everyone.

We would never want the NBA to have Washington Wizards (sorry DC) playing the LA Lakers just to get geographic diversity, let's not do it in college sailing.

It is time to give the best sailors a ticket to the Team Race Nationals by enacting a Semi Finals format for Team Racing as well as the other two disciplines and let the best teams sail for the National Championship.


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