The Publisher
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Jan 29, 2009, 12:06 PM
Post #23 of 39
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Re: [The Publisher] Coaching during regattas
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Poll Comments : - Whatever it takes to eliminate event coaching at everything but the Olympic level.
1/27/2009 1:58:59 PM - Policing coaching will be difficult so keep it simple, eh! This limit also allows coach and crew to compare on-water observations at the end of the race day.
1/27/2009 5:32:50 PM - Coach boats should be limited on the water, coaches should not be allowed to talk to competitors on the water, unless allowed by class rules, classes should institute restrictions based on the composition of their sailors.
1/27/2009 6:04:25 PM - If you need to be led by the hand on the water, go to the kiddie pool.Every element of the spirit of sailing is about independence, self-confidence, and creativity. Let the robot sailors go sailing on Wii. Doran Cushing
1/27/2009 6:06:16 PM - This is madness. How can we allow a "coached" competitor to have an extra set of eyes, wind instruments, etc., in a powerboat scurrying all over the race course and providing a briefing, while the un-coached competitor is left solely to his own devices? What ever happened to the "fair sailing rule"?
1/27/2009 6:08:41 PM - The less coaching the better. The less coaching the less cost the less pretend it is a professional sport the better. Bennet Greenwald
1/27/2009 6:09:18 PM - We hired a coach for our group of kids in Optis to foster team spirit and camaraderie, to keep the parents from overly criticising their kids, and to help the kids with more immediate feedback. Some of these things would probably apply to adult coaching, as well.
1/27/2009 6:11:36 PM - Coaching should be to help people get better. Great! Once the competition begins let''s see how much you learned? Keep the coach boats away from the competitors during the regatta. Like in Tennis they sitin the stands and watch. In Golf they are prohibited from even talking to the competitor during the round.
1/27/2009 6:11:37 PM - Actually, I would prefer that no coaches be allowed at the regatta site from the day before the reggat starts to the day after it ends.
1/27/2009 6:12:55 PM - This idea that coaches damage the sport could not be more absurd. Coaches are the catalyst that keeps the sport moving. their role on the water is only the tip of the iceburg. If you took away the coaches you would find that many regattas would disappear for lack of organization, hundreds of kids would stop sailing and move on to other sports. Look at other sports, if anything coaches in sailing already have their hands tied. Any further limitation would ONLY damage the sport. It would not help anyone, but rather satisfy some cranky folks who have not bothered to look behind the curtain to see who is really doing the work in our sport.
1/27/2009 6:14:49 PM - On the water coaching for all significant Junior regattas should be outlawed..now
1/27/2009 6:17:42 PM - It''s just like buying new sails. I donlt see that there should be rules prohibiting that.
1/27/2009 6:22:50 PM - If one needs coaching, fine, but go into the ring by yourself, take your licks, it builds character, one learns more from their mistakes than their successes, and get coached between events. We all have too much input all too constantly. Take off the earphones, put down the cellphone, Reflect within yourself, it will mean more to you than a talking head telling you what to do next. Get human! This sport was more rewarding before we all took ourselves so seriously. And we still developed great sailors! The best lesson is getting outsailed and taking note of how that happened.
1/27/2009 6:25:30 PM - I probably should stay out of this as I no longer race, well I might, but not at a level where coaching would ever be likely. However, I strongly believe that coaching boats, and the press, and spectators must not be on the race course ever, at any time.
1/27/2009 6:27:28 PM - To an old time sailor this is ridiculous. Is this a race or a training exercise? Coaching has no place during racing.
1/27/2009 6:31:00 PM - and not during protests - please -- level the field -
1/27/2009 6:38:40 PM - In one design series at least, it''s boat vs. boat, skipper and crew vs. skipper and crew. I don''t think coaches belong in races unless they want to be part of the crew and qualify as such. We''re not racing to find out who can afford the best coach, we''re racing to test crew skills, navagation, tactics and boat preparation.
1/27/2009 6:44:51 PM - The water actually is a level playing field. One of the purposes of Rule 41 is to ensure it stays that way, and this option is the only one which guarantees it will be true for every competitor. Any assistance which reduces the challenge inherent in the sport and makes it EASIER for one sailor to compete against another (including first shot at the hot showers) is UNACCEPTABLE.
1/27/2009 6:45:09 PM - The arrival of coaches on the race course is an unwelcme development and in fact they should be limited to shore contact only. I have no problem with one wishing to improve their skill level but that should be limited strictly to non-race times and venues. I cannot think of anything less enjoyable than submitting myself to constant evaalulation and criticism in a recreational pursuit that I choose for escape from the rigors of everyday life. I also prefer to succeed or fail on my own merit. I don''t believe that those with coaches on the water are only in contact before or after a race. The Star class has it right! This support system mentality which seems to have wormed into almost every athletic (and non=athletic activity)will ultimately drive away people from their chosen game. I as a high school athletic coach was stunned when one of my former players was trying out for a division 3 college team and informed me that even at that level some of the athletes brought their personal trainers to school with them. It''s all nonsense. It''s time to have fun again in all of our athletic pursuits and especially in sailing. Who wants to arrive back on the beach and have to wait an hour or so to have a beer with a buddy while they go through their debriefing and critique. Coaches go away!!!!!!!!!! John McShane
1/27/2009 6:46:39 PM - There are obviously many possibilities, but my goal would be to limit the effect of coaches on actual racing. No radio conctact outside of emergencies, no additional sails or equipment opportunities not available to the un-coached sailor, and keep the coaches a reasonable distance away from the starting area. These ideas seem to strike a balance between keeping the information a coached sailor gets timely and relevant, and still making the coached sailor figure things out for himself and make the same sail decisions at the start of the day as the un-coached sailor.
1/27/2009 6:49:15 PM - I believe the NAYRU and subsequently US Sailing rule used to read “no outside assistance.” In many ways that rule provided equal playing conditions for all. What’s the problem with that? Competitive sailing, as many other sports do, continues to provide a benefit for people who can invest greater resources to further their endeavors. This does not result in an equal playing field for all participants. The Etchells class is not alone in trying to limit spending with their “sail card” which limits sail purchases over a period of time. It is no wonder the class has voted to limit coaching. Why not limit the benefits of an individuals financial resources to level the playing field? If excessive spending in yacht racing continues, the ultimate result may well be the kind of shenanigans that Alingi is trying tried to incorporate into the AC. Excessive spending will also discourage new individuals of “limited and/or ordinary means” from becoming involved in competitive sailing. Is this the picture we want to present of our sport? Me, thinks not! Jamie Leopold
1/27/2009 6:54:14 PM - There are so many issues and valid viewpoints on this, a full response would take pages. So let me just list a few of my thoughts to fuel the fire. 1. Some of us were not born to families with a rich sailing tradition. So for us to "get up to speed", a coach is necessary to do the job that a father or grand-parent would do without being challenged. 2. That being said, what is wrong with raising the bar of competition outside of the "old boy network"? Some gifted sailors might actually have to work a little harder. 3. That being said, aside from MAJOR international events (which regulate themselves quite well) coaching at the lower levels (where I think most of this critique comes from) comes down to tossing food and water to a sailor- as well as helping unrelated sailors - and providing a safety buffer on the water which RC''s appreciate, or most times make mandantory. Then comes the Great Carnack predictions that the precious few receive from the "coach". If going left or right and predicting in advance a wind shift to a competitor becomes an advantage, then the coach should be elevated to the level of Allah! The sailors still have to sail the course, and as often than not, the coaches are wrong. WHAT AN ADVANTAGE! 4. That being said - perhaps this discussion should be moved to "The Board Room" to be resolved, as so many other issues in our sport, as well as other sports, seem to find a welcomed ear. 5. KNOW ANY GOOD ATTORNEYS?
1/27/2009 7:12:32 PM - In these poor economic times do we, the sailors, want to remove jobs from the already diminishing job pool. To all the lawyers in sailing, how would you feel if you were not aloud in the courtroom?
1/27/2009 7:12:54 PM - I am only interested in racing against fellow competitors, not competitors plus their support team (which may include coaches). I do not care what they do from Monday to Friday to improve their on water performance (legitimately), but come Saturday and Sunday then its "seconds out" and competitors against competitors only.
1/27/2009 7:18:02 PM - Golf has given quite a golf bit of thought to this issue over the past 600 years or so. In essence, no coaching (advice) on the course except from your caddy. The best parallel for caddy is crew, not coach.
1/27/2009 7:19:33 PM - In one design, there should be no coach boats, no gear boats, etc. It just isn''t fair to everyone else. At the Miami OCR last year in the stars 4 boats left the dock and 7:45 am. The rest of the fleet were towed by their coach boats. There was no wind to get to the race course about 3 miles from the dock. As the breeze filled the RC started a race and the 4 boats that actually tried to sail to the start were excluded. Is that fair?
1/27/2009 7:31:01 PM - I don''t see a whole lot of difference between 4 & 5
1/27/2009 7:32:22 PM - I don''t think coach boats should be allowed on the water with the competitors. I''ve been one of the folks who fills out the fleet and my crew and I have worked as hard during the races that day as the guys with coaches. It galls me to see them being towed in while we have to sail all the way in. At least there ought to be a rule that boats being towed are required to toss beers to competitors that they pass on the way to the dock.
1/27/2009 7:39:47 PM - Coaching on the water just before the start of a race and after really tilts the playing field and will make it difficult for sailors to compete with those that have a full time helper. Constant coaching also takes away the incentive to learn and makes it easy to defer to the coach. I think this trend will weaken the sport. Also coaching really young sailors takes away the "fun" because coaches have to justify their existence to parents that pay the bills both expect improved results.
1/27/2009 7:45:07 PM - coaching fees are getting way out of line. the amount of money that some coaches are earning are absolutely absurd. Opti and c420 coaches are worth paying for for clinics, practice etc but during a regatta when they are incharge of 4 or 5 boats it is rediculous to pay such high fees for glorified babysitting.
1/27/2009 7:45:32 PM - i think that we will improve sailors by having coaching on the water each day. there is so much to be learn by going over tactics, weather, should haves etc. the more we all learn the better the sport will be. once a race starts the competitors have to apply what was taught and do their own thinking. after the race, while still fresh in their mind, is a good time for coaches to reinforce the lesson.
1/27/2009 7:48:13 PM - Coaching is outside assistance, and should be allowed only on a equal basis between teams. If one team has no coach boat, no coach boats for any team. Thanks, Jim Nash
1/27/2009 7:50:26 PM - and we need some control of the coaches during the race day outside the race zone which they must be prohibited from entering except for emergency purposes (similar to spectator craft during AC events)
1/27/2009 7:51:49 PM - It''s not just coaching, but also getting towed in and out, carrying spare parts and doing repairs and relaxing while others are still sailing. Watching Opti''s at lunch with some still sailing and others sitting in an inflatable with a coach just shows what is wrong with coaching at events.
1/27/2009 7:57:49 PM - I would also add that if the competitor is lodging a protest or being protested that there should be no coach coaching about how to handle the protest
1/27/2009 7:59:03 PM - I always understood that getting outside help in a sailboat race was against the rules. With coaches yelling advice from their boats alongside, the next thing they''ll want is to be On the boat with the competitor. Coaching is good for all sports but not DURING the race.
1/27/2009 8:14:49 PM - Coaching should occur before beginning to race - once on the water it should be up to the competitor. Having any coaching boats on the water raises a suspicion of arranged signals.
1/27/2009 8:17:26 PM - No rules limiting coaching Optis no on water coaching contact over 21
1/27/2009 8:46:19 PM - On-water coaching provides an unreasonable advantage.
1/27/2009 8:54:41 PM - Is coach equivalent to parent or friend? It is nice to be towed in.
1/27/2009 9:00:50 PM - Except in regional, national and international championships when coaching should be before the warning of the first race and not again until all racing is complete for the day.
1/27/2009 9:34:44 PM - This choice allows coach to comment prior to racing, observe and then access performance on the way home avoiding interference between races and the unfair advantage of being a supply depot on the race course with extra food, water, clothing etc. This kind of support between races destroys the one-design concept, esp. in classes like the Laser where sailors w/o a coach have to be self sufficient and carry all their needs in a confined space. Also tow out-in should be banned unless all competitors have equal access to the service. Often the sail out or in can be a physical challenge and a tow gives an unfair advantage
1/27/2009 9:39:30 PM - This approaches is akin to professional tennis where no coaching is allowed during a match. Restricting coaching to off the water helps limit the escalation of support, reducing the incentive for each team to have its own on the water coach boat for observation, assuming the regatta provided one or more observation boats available to all coaches.
1/27/2009 9:45:05 PM - Getting towed out later, getting to race area sooner, more rested and with more time to prep., coach boat zipping up to the windward mark for last minute wind readings... how is this keeping a level playing field? Is the sport about money or skill?
1/27/2009 10:03:47 PM - Some Etchell class members are getting bent out of shape about coaches but don''t think twice, or indeed turn a blind eye, to professional crew. Give me a break. I know which is better for the sailors & therefore the class. Get a grip.
1/27/2009 11:46:02 PM - After racing the last two Etchell Worlds Championship in San Francisco 06 and Chicago 08 it became obvious the me and the fleet in general that coaching on the race course was getting out of control and money was becoming the winning factor. The Etchell class restricted coaching this year and I congratulate them.
1/28/2009 12:09:20 AM - I''m watching the Australian Open-the players are out on the court alone during the match-the coaches are sitting in the stands. There''s no huddle after each game or set between coach and player-they''ve already done their work and it''s now up to the player. Why can''t the same apply restrictions apply to sailing?
1/28/2009 12:34:05 AM - I would actually suggest coaching is allowed up to when the boat enters the racing area --- that would allow some coaching on the sail out to the course.
1/28/2009 12:43:06 AM - Provided that the coaches don''t interfere with boats whilst racing what''s the problem?
1/28/2009 1:14:51 AM - Individual classes are free to limit coaching via their class rules if they so desire, just as they are free to limit equipment, sail numbers and materials etc. You cannot feasibly have a blanket rule applied via the RRS (which in any case cannot possibly govern what sailors do when they are not competing) which would apply to all sailing including AC, Olympics, Vendee, Figaro...
1/28/2009 1:31:21 AM - I''m a coach and competitor. As I have seen the proliferation of RIBs at simple events (e.g. Optimists), I don''t want the cost participating in the sport to rise any further, so coaching should be away from the event or through on-shore briefings only.
1/28/2009 1:35:26 AM - Having utilised their services in the past coaches dont just stop at coaching. They''re also data gathering, weather observers, competitior watching with video''s and camera etc. The problems is if we allow coach contact, one coach will become two, then three and the next thing we''ll have AC like teams turning up to events if you''re priveliged enough to afford them. Money and greed has already distroyed one great event in our sport. Lets not let it happen at the grass roots and that includes the highly competitive one design fleets. One Etchells Sailor
1/28/2009 1:36:49 AM - Have you ever seen a couch inside the cour, trackt or field? They must be outside the borderlines, in our case the docks or regatta area. Rafael Valdivia, Santos-Brasil
1/28/2009 1:54:07 AM - Coaching during races destroys the sport and degrades it to Dad with the biggest wallet. Besides coaches should get off the water during the race day. Period !!
1/28/2009 1:54:59 AM - at Olympic and olympic junior pathway classes, many events would struggle to manage the rescue responsibilities if coaches were taken off the water. Also where does this end, there seems to be a great deal of bitterness about advantage for those that cannot afford it, well why not restrict new boats/sails development, sponsorship and pro crews (insist every sailor has to have a day job etc etc). very soon sailing these elite classes would die!
1/28/2009 1:55:23 AM - Different ranges of competition should require different level of allowed coaching guidance. For instance, coaching before and after races in High School Sailing helps teach the sailors. This is good for the sport. At a higher level of competition, more coaching restrictions may be appropriate.
1/28/2009 2:41:10 AM - Based on the fact that I am a RYA Senior Instructor who coaches young sailors on race courses.
1/28/2009 3:06:59 AM - Whilst there is some use for coaches as extra rescue boats they cannot be relied on and generally cause more problems than they solve. Coaching should of course be allowed but not at the regatta. However, the more restrictive the rules the more devious some people will get in trying to talk to their coach during the day!
1/28/2009 3:23:38 AM - Yes the sport needs protedted from coaches during regattas. I would have voted for no coach boats allowed had that been a choice.
1/28/2009 3:54:45 AM - It would be great to sail one event and not have to breath all the exhaust from the coach boats!
1/28/2009 4:41:15 AM - There need to be regulations on coaching as in all sports. As a coach (Youth Sailing) I know there are many among us that drive like maniacs or disobey other rules regarding coaching in the SI''s. The RC needs to enforce the rules in the SI''s and give penalties to the coach''s sailors. When race committees communicate with coaches and reprimand when necessary coaching should not be something that detracts from an event. As an event coordinator I know that I have been very grateful for the presence of coach boats when the conditions became dangerous. Like anything we don''t want it to get out of control and the coaches need to respect the sailors by not causing problems on the race course, but we also don''t need ban all coaches from the water.
1/28/2009 4:47:02 AM - Apart from Olympic Level most peoples time is restricted to weekends and Holidays. They need to make the most of the time they get on the water to improve, which if they can afford it means having coaching at events. Very few people outside Olympic level train/practice outside of competitions and even if they do coaching at events is key. Its also a restriction of trade.
1/28/2009 4:47:57 AM - I chose option 4, but option 2 should remain in effect for college sailing.
1/28/2009 4:53:44 AM - Any sport shoots itself in the foot when some can simply pay to get ahead. In many cases there is nothing we can practically do, but the growth of the sailing has been seriously undermined by the cost for the average entrant/participant and coaching is one areas that can easily be addressed. The people with the vested interests, however, are usually the most vocal and involved and will thus write the rules to their favor.
1/28/2009 5:04:42 AM - This is the best way to learn. In the early days of Bermuda''s Optimist programme, we allowed coaching during the race in fun races. Learning is applied immediately or not, and everyone gets the lessons hands on. Sincerely, Malcolm Kirkland
1/28/2009 5:22:35 AM - I vote no coaching allowed, as defined as professional (paid) coaching. We need to stimulate racing, not create advantages for the few.
1/28/2009 5:25:09 AM - I would submit that allowing coaching on the race course takes away the amateur status of the sport. Let''s face it, the majority of the competitors are weekend warriors or wednesday night contestants. Allowing "coaching on the water", once again the skill of the boat and crew is measured by the depth of their wallets or pockets. If the contestants want coaching them let them declare themselves as professionals. I say no coaching away from the dock among the amatuer ranks.
1/28/2009 5:49:01 AM - Coaching should be conducted on non-race days. The results of the coaching should show on race day. Afterwards, review those results. The coach should be there...but not as an unfair advanage.
1/28/2009 5:49:30 AM - I don''t think that a sailor gains a huge advantage from having a coach on the water. Having a coach on the water is more of a "crutch" the sailor probally has less assurance with their own decisions and needs an outside eye to vaidate or invalidate their tactics/decisions.
1/28/2009 5:49:44 AM - no coaching at all during a regatta would be better yet.
1/28/2009 5:52:51 AM - Let''s not foment an arms race on the Opti or Sabot circuit.
1/28/2009 5:55:22 AM - As a parent of a junior sailor, i may have a different perspective.In fact, i think the debate should be divided into junior and adult prospectives. From the junior point of view, most juniors are coming up through club programs where coaching is an integral part of learning. Having a club program coach at regattas is not only an important part of the sailor''s individual improvement but is prudent aspect of safety for many junior level sailors. i think allowing coaching at regattas for juniors, as is currently the normshould continue. Especially if the US is serious about returning to it''s former level of sucess in the international and Olympic ciruits. On the other hand, the Etchells classes and Star clasess are cleary adult, serious classes with big money, pros, big egos and all the attendant "win at any cost" attitudes. The people with money will generally want the leverage and advantage that that money offers, and those without will want to eliminate that leverage and level the playing field. It''s human nature. Each class needs to excercise the democratic option and allow it''s members to decide. For classes with large or exclusive junior participation however, such as Opti and laser, the approcah has to be different.
1/28/2009 5:57:47 AM - Enough already. Racing should be between competitors only, on a level playing field. Get the coaches off the water.
1/28/2009 6:00:47 AM - Unless all competitors are receiving assistance after leaving the dock, none should. We are trying to level the playing field, not tilt it in favour of those with more money.
1/28/2009 6:07:02 AM - Coaching makes the racing a learning experience. Reminders of mistakes and encouragement for good choices immediately after the race really helps the learning curve, especially for children.
1/28/2009 6:09:28 AM - Clearly a coach should not be allowed to communicate with a boat during a race. But when the boat is not racing then a team should have full access to the support of a coach. Every sport has coaching. At the ''high end'' of the sport coaching should be used more that it currently is. Why do we keep trying to un-professionalize sailing at the top level? Sailing has a very strange culture where working on improving one''s level in the sport is looked down on. If you play golf you go to the driving range with a pro, or if you play tennis you hit balls with a pro...on a regular basis. Why is it wrong to strive to improve your game in sailing? Coaching, like in any other sport is the fast track to improvement. More people should utilize coaches. And not just at the high end...the weekend warrior could gain tremendously from off the boat coaching as well.
1/28/2009 6:09:31 AM - Once you get on the boat to go race, it should be a measure of YOUR talent against your competitors period. Coaching and practicing before event is fine to hone your talent, but not on the race course.
1/28/2009 6:14:05 AM - Some areas of the sport are professional sailing. If you compete in these classes expect the coaches to be there. Would an NFL team show up without coaches for the game?
1/28/2009 6:26:05 AM - Coaching after each race is good to point out on the water errors that happen in the previous race. Stay out of the race course and obseve for the sides.
1/28/2009 6:30:30 AM - I actually think that it varies depending on the type of boat (dinghies v. keelboats), age of sailor and such. I am actually a proponent of providing the best possible coaching during practice and practice racing, and allowing coaches the ability to observe racing so that they can have material to provide as feedback at the end of the day, but, especially with kids, coaching between races is so limited in the opportunity of what you can provide, and whether the competito can absorb and apply it so as not to be really worth it. We''re bringing up a generation of sailors who expect there will always be someone there to carry their lunch and spare gear and solve their problems for them. And the trade-offs of powerboat mayhem in the starting/finishing areas and along the laylines is just a pain and distraction for everyone involved--competitors and RC alike.
1/28/2009 6:35:07 AM - Haveing coaches improves the sailing level of not only the people beeing coached but the people they sail against. In addition, when the going gets rough...it is the coaches that can jump in and save the day with their knowledge, skill and experience that volenteers do not always have. Coaches should not be allowed in the course area during racing but other than that...it is all positive. They can be directed to not do something by the race committe at any time. My husband and I both coach and we both often help one of the beginner sailers when ever possible when we are out there, even when we are coaching another team. COACHES RAISE THE THE GAME FOR EVERYONE. You can have a private coach or go in as a group to share a coach. Coaching does not have to be over the top expensive. IT MAKES THE SPORT BETTER and elevates the skill level, not to mension makes it safer for EVERYONE.
1/28/2009 6:35:26 AM - USSA has restricted or forbidden ''on water'' coaching for junior and adult ''ladder events'' for many years. It seems to work just fine.
1/28/2009 6:44:26 AM - My "magic wand" would be no coach contact within 48 hours of the scheduled start of the first race of an event and when they return to the dock after the final race of the event.
1/28/2009 6:54:51 AM - None of the above choices is acceptable. I only made a selection because I could not offer any comments without a response. No coaching should be allow during a regatta at all. No coaches should be allowed to observe racing, communicate with competitors, or offer any type of support from the initial skippers meeting until the awards are presented. Get coaching out of regattas and return sailboat racing to fair competition among the sailors. There is enough distinction made between rich competitors and competitors of modest means in the equipment and paid crew. If we want this sport to prosper, level competition must be available to more sailors.
1/28/2009 6:59:49 AM - This way you improve the competition within the class, and interest in the sport without boats without coach boats getting in the way during the day''s racing and you prevent unfair advantage with wind direction, favored sides, etc...
1/28/2009 7:00:35 AM - Coaching is the best way to improve you skill and practice starts/races just are not as competitive so coaching only there is not nearly as beneficial. I do not regularly use a coach; however, I have a few times and believe that the best way to balance the advantage over non-coached competitors vs. fully coached is to restrict contact from departure dock time until the last race of the day. This means that the coached boat gets the "pump" and check list for the predicted weather (say for heavy - remember to vang sheet, twist off the jib, etc.) but not the specifics for the first race after having seen the actual conditions 30 minutes before the start. You could wait until docking after the race, but I think coaching in that few minutes following the finish before you shift out of race mode is quite important - I always have the de-brief then - before any "refreshments" or discussion of the evenings activities begins.
1/28/2009 7:17:33 AM - For youth sailors, allow coaching only before and after each race. For adult sailors (including Olympic trials and the Games), allow coaching only before the first race of the day, and at the end of the day. - USMMA Collegiate coach
1/28/2009 7:22:50 AM - I believe the current program of not limiting coaching is extreamly detrimental to our sport.
1/28/2009 7:27:57 AM - While I don''t disagree that those with means should be permitted to spend and escalate their game to whatever degree they like, most competitors would agree that more powerboats in a race area only adds additional distraction to the course and confusion to the sea state. Fundamentally the sport is cleaner, more enjoyable, and potentially safer (class dependent) with fewer obstacles and noisemakers around the racing area.
1/28/2009 7:31:45 AM - I think coaching raises the bar for everyone, just as allowing professional drivers and crew makes us all better sailors. But we should limit a competitors resources to what is contained within the bounds of her boat, and restrict outside contributions. There is nothing inherently wrong with coaching during the regatta, but I would rather sail in a fleet that keeps the game limited to the fools on the boat.
1/28/2009 7:35:24 AM - My vote applies to coaches in coach boats. Part of learning how to become a better sailboat racer is learning how to make quick decisions on the race course. This education won''t happen if a coach is always available. If someone wants to take a coach on board the race boat as one of the crew, this would allow coaching during the racing and is an appropriate way to deal with it. Having extra boats on the race course impacts other competitors and should not be allowed.
1/28/2009 7:50:41 AM - No wakes allowed anywhere near the racing area.
1/28/2009 7:57:57 AM - As well,to limit air and water disturbance, coach boats should be required to stay well outside of the course area while the races are in progress . Requirements for safety and lunch boats should to be arranged and controlled by the organizers. Spectator and parent etc boats should be subject to the same restrictions.
1/28/2009 8:30:58 AM - Have we lost the plot as to what sailing boat racing is all about? It is about individuals and individual teams on board a particular boat doing their best to win races based on their skill and preperation. As with the best of sports world-wide, amongst the few exceptions being American Football and basketball, most competitors train and practice before their event, and when the event/race starts they are trained to the best of their ability and let loose, with a level playing field. No on-field coaching or time-outs! In sailing; the America''s Cup, offshore racing and the majority of dinghy events are raced without on-the-water coaching, and it has always worked. The rich guys have to do it the same as every-one and they have always enjoyed competing at that level. Let those with the grand budgets spend the money on their boats to gain a competitive edge, but don''t allow them to outspend their competition even more with coaches on the water. At a time when all sports and ''players'' are watching budgets, we don''t need another cost to the sport that a minority can afford, to out spend the majority. When-ever the cost of sailing competition has risen the number of competitors always goes down. This is just another way that (some) wealthy competitors can outspend their competitors to gain an advantage. In this case ''Wealth'' can mean earned income or sponsors money; the result is the same for ''Joe 6 pack'', an advantage he can''t compete with or outspend. After writing this I reviewed the ''View Comments'' Link. Have a look! Overwhelming vote for no coaching. Some great comments. From Sharpie in Ft. Laudredale.
1/28/2009 8:39:49 AM - Imagine a tennis tournament where each player gets coached between every serve.
1/28/2009 8:53:26 AM - More contact should be allowable for junior regattas
1/28/2009 8:59:08 AM - I'' like to see middle ground where coaches can tow competitors out, but no contact after reaching start area.
1/28/2009 9:01:16 AM - Remember, this should also include telephone calls to weather information paid for and accessed before the boats warning gun , not unusual with big boat programs.
1/28/2009 9:15:56 AM - Providing any on-water assistance to one competitor that is not available to all provides an unfair advantage. In my opinion, it''s pretty close to cheating.
1/28/2009 9:20:07 AM - For beginners coach contact should be before warning and after finsh of each race. In advanced classes coaches should only be allowed contact after boat leaves dock and after final race.
1/28/2009 9:22:21 AM - I would have offered the following as one of the options Coach contact allowed while at the dock or while participating boat is not on the water. If someone returns to the dock or, for example, pulls the boat for repairs, why not let them be coached?
1/28/2009 9:22:56 AM - hiring a "pro" to sail with you during a race is vastly different than off-boat coaching during a race series. Coach boats that can see the whole fleet, their sail trim and get to/from the marks quickly, gives an unfair advantage to those with more money than their competitors. This is not a commercial team sport or a school sport where coaches are expected to help the pros and kids get better during an event. If someone hires a coach, the coach should only be allowed to give advise before and after, not during, a race series. The coach can video the race and critique his employers performance after the series, not during the race. While racing, the competitors should all be on a "level playing field". I like the idea of having the fleet or class hiring a coach boat to video each boats performance and critique the fleet "as a whole", giving individual post-race advice to each participant, to help them do better the next time. Jeff Brown American Yacht Club Rye, NY
1/28/2009 9:24:30 AM - this is a fringy area. from time to time, we have seen certain coaches/boats on the water after the sequence has started, positioning themselves in a place on the water that serves as a signal to the youth sailors telegagraphing which end of the line is favored. furthermore during the race will serve as a wind shift indicators by thier positioning for their sailors. i feel specific lanes for coaches and thier craft to stay in would help to create a more level playing field. i realize that my comments apply to youth sailing and not the larger boats, but it has been a hot button for me as an organizer of all youth sailing out here on the east end of long island, where we generally enjoy excellent sailing conditions.
1/28/2009 9:32:42 AM - Tennis generally does not allow coaching during the match. The players have to be able to apply there knowledge without assistance. I think that once the boats leave the dock, it should be stricly up to the competitors skills without the assistance of coaching. The extra information that the coached teams get on the water gives them an unfair advantage. Coaching should teach the competitors how to think for themselves and not rely on outside information.
1/28/2009 9:36:50 AM - Coaches are like support boats. If you want a level playing field, then everyone gets one or everyone doesn''t get one. If a class allows you to pay people to help you out, then they belong on the boat with you, not somewhere else.
1/28/2009 9:45:12 AM - No coaching = Willful ignorance. I am amazed that some people resent others'' desitre to learn. Perhaps they would also like to outlaw college becasue it gives some people and advatage in the office place. Environmental? Are you serious the entire sailing industry is an environmental afront from plastic resins to plastic sails to toxic paint to the parent toting SUVs. A coach boat is not adding measurably to the damage. Stop resenting other''s success and step up, shut up, or create your own "no using your brain" fleet.
1/28/2009 10:01:18 AM - It looks like some people are bitter that they can''t afford a coach. Those who want to improve and have the dough to pay for a coach, will see positive results.
1/28/2009 10:04:46 AM - It is an unfair advantage for a team who has a coach who can tell them what was happening on the course for that race and any trends they can see when not involved in the race, compared to a team just out there to enjoy the sport and race head to head.
1/28/2009 10:06:22 AM - Do what the RRS allow, and leave it up to the classes to ask the RC to add additional restrictions to the SIs if that is what the class wants.
1/28/2009 10:17:14 AM - Contact allowed between races as long as the contact is at least one mile from the race area for subject and all other racing classes.
1/28/2009 10:25:39 AM - If not all competitors can afford coaches, then this adds an element to regattas that takes away the "one design" aspect. Sure, those people may not be able to afford the best sails, lines, etc. as the others, but they are at least on the same "one-design" boat that has to pass measurment, crew weight, etc. That is what makes one-design racing so good. The beauty of sailing is that it revolves around the teamwork that happens within the confounds of the boat itself. Think of it like the rules of Tennis where a coach sitting in the stands can''t even give hand signals to their player. My vote is not to allow coaching on the water at all. Nothing can be done to stop it ashore however.
1/28/2009 10:46:45 AM - Generally, coaching allowed before and between races, however each class is free to modify this to suit there best interests.
1/28/2009 11:05:01 AM - Coach boat on the water but no interaction till end of day..
1/28/2009 11:13:27 AM - Plus controls on where coach boats can be on the course area.
1/28/2009 11:13:33 AM - Coaching during the race provides a significant advange of imput of high quality information from an different position that takes away the level playing field between just boat and crew. If training is the issue, record and review after the race. You are never going to learn to win with a coach wispering over your shoulder, you learn by making mistakes.
1/28/2009 11:57:04 AM - The middle choice allows the coach to provide a tow out. But maybe the limit should be 1/2 hour before the warning or arrival at the race course (meaning, when dropping the tow).
1/28/2009 12:06:46 PM - I would distinguish races at the Club level versus a wider audience. I don''t find a problem with someone wanting to improve their skills on a regular Wednesday night Club race (how else can they improve?), but I do find a problem with coaching in "bigger" races when racing truly is about testing and challenging the people in the boats (not their coaches). Coaching would provide a very unfair advantage. I guess we just let the classes determine their own rules, like they do with pro sailors.
1/28/2009 12:31:23 PM - Why is sailing different than any other sport?
1/28/2009 12:37:11 PM - There have also been instances wher a coach boat has hit another competitor....
1/28/2009 12:43:37 PM - On race day, once you leave the dock ****your Racing****. Once you finish the last race and clear the finish line *** your day sailing.
1/28/2009 12:53:09 PM - I do not mind competing against all of the PROS, but the support team with coach, does make the playing field that more un-equal.
1/28/2009 12:56:42 PM - Coach''s are important during regattas because you can get an outside perspective on your race. They should definitely be allowed on the water, no coaching during races though. The only limitation I would like to see is maybe on the size of some coach boats. Sailing dinghy''s on light air days, wake can be a huge factor. Some coach''s have unnecessarily huge coach boats not only creating lots of wake but doing environmental damage.
1/28/2009 1:07:22 PM - It''s tempting to suggest that race organizers, keeping their clienteles in mind, decide what kind of regatta, with what level of professional input, they want. But alas that is only a recipe for anarchy. Let the racers show their stuff unaided!
1/28/2009 1:18:23 PM - It works well for us in the Farr40 class.
1/28/2009 1:40:59 PM - Every other sport allows coaching of some kind (okay, at least the sports I know of), even fans that are allowed to yell directions at the competitors! Time for sailing to get with the times and allow coaching before and between races. Worried about it not being fair, join your local club, encourage them to get a coach, not only will you be improving your skills, but you''ll help develop more racing. On the junior level coaching is almost 50/50 between actual coaching of sailing skills and support (be it logistical, safety, or simply talking a 11 year old opti kid down from a disapointing result). I have been an Opti coach for many years, and I have never seen a coach not tow another kid in just because he ''wasn''t on the team''. Perhaps its different on the big boats with older sailors, but on the junior fleets I''ve been around, coaching helps the juniors develop and have FUN. You try putting a ten year old out on the water at Miami Orange Bowl (200+ optis) and see how much fun they have without a coaches support.
1/28/2009 1:49:33 PM - How does this work for spectators. We regularly go out and watch our daughter race. We often carry extra clothes, food and water for her and other members of our sailing team. David F
1/28/2009 1:49:58 PM - Coaching is a useful tool but a potentially significantly unfair one. If a class doesn''t allow the professional coach onboard then why should they allow him/her on or near the course during the race?
1/28/2009 2:30:13 PM - No Wakes!
1/28/2009 3:26:54 PM - My brothers and myself were blessed to have very season sailing legend father to coach us. Locals got very protective. Similiar to what I see here. 6 members of our club went to Sears Cup 2 yr in a rowClub put age limits on jr crews.. None since (53 yrs)We did continue on to 5 Nat Championships & 1 worlds.Law of natural selection & timely coaching should show the way of future US sailing champions. Robie Pierce Newport RI
1/28/2009 4:13:48 PM - The age of Obama ...
1/28/2009 5:04:18 PM - The Etchells class is a One Design Class. The beauty of One Design is that whether you are rich, or like most of us "we have just enough" means events can be won with skill by those on lowlier incomes. The bulk of any fleet is made up of average income individuals. History shows that any class will diminish once it just becomes the one with the money that wins. Coaching on the water in an event is wrong and strainss the limits of the average sailors income.
1/28/2009 5:37:56 PM - Clearly, we are at a juncture where perhaps a definition has to be made between professional and amateur racers. Amateurs, by definition, do it for the "love of it"....pros, obviously are not so inclined. Being professional, obilgations and concomitant justification become the driving element. Yet, most recognize the advantage and thrill (not to mention the benefit) of mixing it up with the best as a way to better one''s skills. My question is how do you define an amateur sailor in our current climate? Where does coaching fit into the equation? Coaching has brought a new level of cost, logistics, and enterprise into the system, which only most pros can rationalize and which creates a dichotomy in what should be a level field. There was a time in the not so distant past when there were no coaches present, no referees/juries (just honor and only protest committees), no drama, no complications,... no nada,... and a relatively minimal cost associated with event management transferred to sailboat racing/racers. Coaching is an important aspect to develop competitive racing for sure - to acquire a level of seamanship and insight into the broad sailing spectrum that includes racing knowledge. To what extent does it need to become a focal point in our sport, and to what level does it impede development? The best in our competitive sailing world, after all, really don''t need personal coaching at all...perhaps it''s all about having the right stuff and being able to manage oneself efficiently.
1/28/2009 7:11:12 PM - I think coaches should be limited to what they can do to help an athlete before the game begins and after it ends. They should not be allowed to help the competitor during the game. In practical terms, I think this means eliminating coaching contact on the water.
1/28/2009 7:31:44 PM - I''ve been a professional coach for over 20 years... There are so ways I help my clients... some need serious help with tuning, rules, strategy, etc.; but I alway shoot to help them DEVELOP these skills. Never tell them what to do. You want them to be independent. You want to make them aware of things they can''t see from their perspective. And sometimes, you all you gotta do is remind them to eat and drink! Allow coaching between races!! (except for Green Fleet Optis... we should be allowed to coach the back-of-the-packers around the course!!) -Amy Gross-Kehoe
1/28/2009 7:56:34 PM - Coaches belong on the sidelines, not the playing field.
1/28/2009 8:19:27 PM - I''ve been a mid fleet contender in international fleets and seeing the top group with coaches can be upsetting thinking of all the advantages they have until I realized how everyone in the fleet can benefit from it as well. Coaching has certainly did a lot for me, sailing in a regatta''s is now much more rewarding to me as I''m able to recognize mistakes and work on them since I have had help & informed from coaches. I would have never have been able to do this on my own. I''m now a much better sailor because of it. Even the Tuesday night girls softball club has coaching. As a sport we are way behind in getting proper information and coaching to the sailors, limiting coaching will keep us backwards without us getting better. I don''t think it''s healthy. Plus when I don''t have a coach, I am now use to seeing them around, it doesn''t bother me anymore. The part that does bother me is some coaches not respecting other sailors on the course or while getting to the course. The lack of offering a tow or not slowing down near non client sailors, making waves at the weather mark doesn''t make coaches look good. They are a lot of good coaches out there like Morgan Reeser who are polite & talented but the bad ones ruin it for everyone
1/28/2009 8:23:33 PM - No coaching during regatta. period.
1/28/2009 8:53:29 PM - What about a Jr Regatta where the competitors come back to the dock for lunch? How are you going to limit coach contact during the meal break?
1/28/2009 11:49:59 PM - Feedback is key to improving - why would you limit being the best that you can be?
1/29/2009 4:11:06 AM - From a judge''s perspective: The fact that one sailor can afford a coach and the next sailor cannot is life - and life is not always ''fair''. When however one sailor has its private supply vessel to tow out to and in from the course, to carry lunch, extra water, change of clothing (hot or cold), extra equipment when the sailor beside him does not does give that competitor an advantage. Option 5 above removes that advantage. To control on-the-water I would also add a "gybe'' mark on one side of the course with an instrcution that all coach boats must stay outside that mark when traveling from one end of the course to the other.
1/29/2009 4:31:49 AM - Look at most other mainstream sports and how the coaches (are allowed to) interact with their athletes. The sport of racing sailboats needs to embrace advancement of its athletes and its craft if it is to move closer to being a media friendly, sponsor value returning, spectator interesting activity. There are way too many contradictions from the sport. Corinthian, TV savvy, professional, youth oriented, cheap, expensive, public, private, etc. What do you want, people??
1/29/2009 5:04:04 AM - I have sailed in many mixed fleet regattas and get very upset when I have to dodge around coach boats that are more concerned about their clients than good seamanship. I say "ban them from the race course" for the whole day.
1/29/2009 6:10:07 AM - When I decided to take up: Tennis, I hired a Tennis Pro Golf, I hired a Golf Pro Gymnastics, I hired a Gymnastics Coach Ice Skating, I hired an Ice Skating Coach Piano, I hired a Piano Teacher Swimming, a Swim Coach Name it, there''s a coach for it. Even Olympic gymnasts have a coach during their routine to catch them if they fall. Why is Sailing different?
1/29/2009 7:37:02 AM - Coaching is an important part of developement of an individual/crew developement. I don''t think that there is one simple solution to this situation. Perhaps the answer lies in a blend of the solutions in the poll. I think that the rules should be applied depending on the skill level of the competitors. For example at high level events, Olympics, Worlds, Grand Prix, Professional events coaching is limited to before leaving the dock untill after returning to the dock. For lower level events , club, local regional, etc. coaching up to the warning signal and after the finish of a race. The purpose of coaching should be to help the competitor learn and improve, not necessarily give them the upper hand over those who can''t afford to hire the best "top gun"
1/29/2009 7:49:14 AM - Coaching is an integral and essential part of our sport. Many times a coach can see something that the sailor cannot, be is sail shape, wind shifts or fleet tendencies. All these things are part of the game. More importantly, having a person avalible to talk a race through after it''s conclusion is so important (especially if you have a bad race), in a sailors ability to move on and focus on the proper thing for the next race. The moral support provided by a coach goes far beyond even the information being exchanged. If a quarterback is allowed to talk to their coach inbetween every play, and has mic. feeds into his helmet, and least let me talk to my coach in between races!
1/29/2009 11:11:42 AM - this sport should work towards evening the playing field. it is hard enough to watch non one design yachts wining based on money spent, but should be hard to see within the one design fleets. it is one design. ps--how is coaching not outside assistance? I know rule is written for race, but there is too much to gain with off the boat perspective.
1/29/2009 11:24:42 AM
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