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Forum Index: DISCUSSION: Dock Talk: America's Cup

talkintravel ** Feb 21, 2010, 9:07 PM Post #1 of 10 (11740 views) Shortcut America's Cup Log-In to Post/Reply America's Cup 2013 or 2014...run by two mega millionaires again. You want to know where it'll be held, just follow the money trail.

waiknot **** Feb 21, 2010, 11:02 PM Post #2 of 10 (11733 views) Shortcut Re: [talkintravel] America's Cup [In reply to] Log-In to Post/Reply A bit cynical. the America's Cup is has always and will always be a rich persons sport. if you don;t like it don;t watch. As for me their spending their money on a sport i enjoy watching, fantastic

talkintravel ** Feb 22, 2010, 4:38 AM Post #3 of 10 (11728 views) Shortcut Re: [waiknot] America's Cup [In reply to] Log-In to Post/Reply I totally agree!. My dad used to say 'it cost money to live,' my mom told me 'money's for spending,' and then there's the really old line 'you can't take it with you' Mr. Ellison, spend away, just don't leed us to believe that your heart is in SF when we all know 'it's about the money,' so whether it be in Valencia, Spain; Cascais, Portugal; Newport, RI; San Diego; SF; or for that matter Genoa, Italy (all of which could support a great AC effort), I believe in the end, the challenger of record (Italy) and the defender(USA) will hold it where the city fathers of those cities can generate the most money for the two principals. I hope I'm wrong, and it's in SF, but Ellison didn't get so rich being a nice guy...just ask those who work for him.

EaglesPDX *** Feb 22, 2010, 6:38 AM Post #4 of 10 (11716 views) Shortcut Re: [talkintravel] America's Cup [In reply to] Log-In to Post/Reply What is with the hostility to Ellison? Did he run over your dog with USA17? He's been a stand up guy as far as sailing goes. He's certainly not in it for the money. He had the support of the AC community in his fight with Bertarelli who had gone power crazy and was making changes that broke the spirit and rules of the America's Cup which is why Ellison won in court. If you listen to the ABC interview with Ellison he lays out a great future for the Cup which involves the return of Bruno Trouble and Louis Vuitton to run the independent Challenger series, exciting racing in new high tech 60 foot trimarans, sailing accessible to the general public to bring more people to the sport and raise its profile, an international event and one that smaller nations like South Africa with not much cash but a long sailing tradition can participate in, racing in SF Bay which everyone agrees will make for great racing if he can pull it off. Everyone who's a friend of the AC owes Ellison a thank you for restoring the AC and for bringing it into the 21st century.

talkintravel ** Feb 22, 2010, 12:27 PM Post #5 of 10 (11704 views) Shortcut Re: [EaglesPDX] America's Cup [In reply to] Log-In to Post/Reply I totally agree with you that we have Ellison to thank for the Cup being back where it belongs, and he's probably spent closer to a billion dollars over the last ten years to achieve that goal. We should all be so lucky, but if you think he went to his effort for the good ole USA, that's where we part ways. He's a longtime sailor starting on Lido 14's as a kid and campaigned other boats on the world racing circuit...he's a fierce competitor. To see AC and Louis Vuitton sailing on SF Bay would bring so many people back into sailing, we'd have a thriving industry like we did in the 1970's. I suppose what I'm most bothered by is the lack of team members from the country of each boat, but it's professional sports and you hire who you can afford...Coutts being a great example for both Bertarelli and Ellison. To look at the South African team (during the 33rd Cup) from the Royal Cape Yacht Club of Capetown...they actually had some crew members from Capetown who had never been on a sailboat before joining the team, kids off the streets. During the 'Acts' leading up to the Louis Vuitton Cup, they even won some races...that's spirit. If you've followed the Cup since 1983 when John Bertrand on Australia II nosed out Dennis Conner, the boats didn't have advertising on them and for the most part were crewed by sailors who represented the country of each boat. Obviously times are different now with Ellison having one paid crew member from the USA and a CEO from New Zealand, and he's not alone. All I'm saying is it's not the same sport it was in the past so don't hold your breathe that the America's Cup now held by an Americian yacht club, sponsoring a team financed by an American businessman, will be held in America in 2013 or 2014.

Geologyinc ** Feb 22, 2010, 1:42 PM Post #6 of 10 (11696 views) Shortcut Re: [talkintravel] America's Cup [In reply to] Log-In to Post/Reply No, racing in the America's Cup has never been a poor man's sport. Not since it was first brought home to the America's from Britain in the 1800's. Nor is it likely to ever be. It is the most elite challenge in sailboat racing. It is a grand challenge race series to observe (if you can), but it most likely will always remain only a rich man's race to compete in. So try to enjoy the yachts that are fortunate enough to make it into the finals and be fascinated be the changing technologies that they have helped to evolve & develop with a potential outcome that some of those technologies eventually may be passed down at a lesser cost to those of us who were less financially fortunate enough to afford them when they first arrived on the sailing scene. If you ever should become a highly skilled sailor whose abilities are in demand, then some day you might be fortunate enough to become a member of one of those AC crews. If I were younger, such a privileged goal and achievement would be more than enough to satisfy me.

EaglesPDX *** Feb 22, 2010, 1:51 PM Post #7 of 10 (11696 views) Shortcut Re: [talkintravel] America's Cup [In reply to] Log-In to Post/Reply I think Ellison definitely had nationalistic reasons for competing for the Cup. Were they his only reasons, it's never that simple. As far as the international crews, that's not Ellison's fault but it is something he and Coutts both talked about emphasizing more in AC34. Coutts thought a 70/30 rule. Ellison has also addressed the youth involvement some kind of AC related way to get kids into sailing and sailing kids some AC exposure. This is the America's Cup though, the pinnacle of PROFESSIONAL sailboat racing not the Olympics. As for the commercialism on the boats, it used to be Candlestick Park and now it's 3COM Park, sailing doesn't exist in a vacuum. "All I'm saying is it's not the same sport it was in the past". It wasn't then either. America's Cup began as some NY sailors building a boat to win races and money in Europe in the age of the robber barons. I'd say it hasn't changed a bit except the prize money is much less today. I think Ellison expressed all the right ideas in his ABC interview, the correct balance for the America's Cup.

Max ** Mar 2, 2010, 12:24 AM Post #8 of 10 (11620 views) Shortcut Re: [talkintravel] America's Cup [In reply to] Log-In to Post/Reply Oh, for goodness' sake! AC racing has been a multinational exercise for the last decade at least, and has been the better for it (not least in allowing New Zealand sailors to combine with other countries' money, rather than crowding them all into a single, and less than lavishly resourced, team). For much longer than that, AC racing has been a huge money sport and, but for that, would (a) not have featured cutting edge boats; (b) not have attracted the best sailors - bear in mind that Coutts and Spithill on BOR and Butterworth and Peyron on A5 are pretty much as good as there is; and (c) wouldn't have survived as a pinnacle event. Wishfulness about non-sailors as competitors, about non-advertising (which kept teams either dependent on rich patrons - Australia II didn't need advertising because they had Alan Bond, later convicted of an A$1.2 bn fraud - or else poor and non-competitive) and so on is not "spirit": it's sentimentalism at its worst and not even accurate at that.

The Publisher ***** Mar 28, 2010, 3:27 PM Post #9 of 10 (10225 views) Shortcut Re: [Max] America's Cup [In reply to] Log-In to Post/Reply From Stephen Roffey, Sunshine Coast, Australia: What a great disappointment that Larry Ellison has dropped his pending litigation against Alinghi. Ellison started his legal quest in 2007 to prevent Alinghi from writing the rules in its own favour in its rabid desire to hold on to the Cup. He spent millions on lawyers in that effort and the sailing community (plus me, not even a sailor) were grateful to him. Now, just because he has thrashed Alinghi and won the Cup, doesn't he care anymore about the principles he fought for? Dozens of sailors were put out of work by Alinghi's refusal to be brought to heel. Alinghi should be punished for Bertarelli's obsessive fear of allowing his nemesis Russell Coutts a fair chance to take the Cup away from him. Because, let's face it, it was all about Coutts for Bertarelli, wasn't it? Ellison should have proceeded with his breach of fiduciary duty action - not to ban Alinghi forever as a potential trustee (and consequently even as a challenger, which would be going too far in my view), but to preclude any sordid attempt by any team to bend the rules in the future. Are we to forget about Alinghi's constant antics? Their refusal to allow Team NZ on the podium after AC 32, their almost universally scorned Protocol, their pathetic cartoons, their claim as to which party failed to sign the Singapore agreement, their telling Oracle where it could or couldn't park its trimaran, their "We don't want to play anymore!" sulk on the Race Committee boat before Race 2 in Valencia, their tardiness in handing over the intellectual property rights to Oracle after Oracle won, and so on? Larry, letting bygones be bygones and moving on with AC 34 for the good of the sport may be the honorable thing to do. But a lot of people are going to think the White Knight doesn't "care" anymore now that he has his hands on the silverware. I doubt that that's true, but I'm sad to say you've dropped a few places in my book of heroes.

waiknot **** Mar 29, 2010, 12:50 AM Post #10 of 10 (10129 views) Shortcut Re: [The Publisher] America's Cup [In reply to] Log-In to Post/Reply Stephen, I think you are being a bit hard on Larry. As much as I dislike Ernesto and friends, it is time to move forward. I am sure Larry's energy is focused on AC 34. Also don't forget Harold Bennett's report into the strike on the start boat is totally separate to Larry's legal challenge and is the forum for sailings ruling body to show some strength and hold Team Alinghi to account.

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